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ump570    14

This weekend I am working a 12U tournament in which they play on a field with 50 foot mound and 70 foot bases. I have worked on both 60 foot bases at the Little League level and 90 foot bases at the high school/ legion level. Are there any differences as far as positioning? It's a 2 man system. Do I set up in the same position as a 60 foot diamond or do I set up as if it's a 90 foot diamond?

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BRUMP    469

My association uses the 90 foot positioning system in a 50/70 field which I prefer (especially in C) but I have seen both

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Umpire in Chief    1,371

Just from pure observation no hard evidence to back this up...

It seems when runners are allowed to take a lead is is preferred for us to work on the inside, and if they are not allowed to lead we work from the outside.

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ump570    14

Thanks guys. This is helpful. This age group allows leads and free stealing, so it makes sense to be inside.

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BRUMP    469

Just from pure observation no hard evidence to back this up...

It seems when runners are allowed to take a lead is is preferred for us to work on the inside, and if they are not allowed to lead we work from the outside.

agreed the few times I have seen them on the outside the umpires always appeared to be scrambling to get in position on rotations

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MPLSMatt    78

In my group it has been custom (not edict though) to work outside, but I hate it and would much prefer to do inside. It's pretty tough to work outside if they are leading off. If you are in C, you are a long way from a play a 1b.

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BRUMP    469

In my group it has been custom (not edict though) to work outside, but I hate it and would much prefer to do inside. It's pretty tough to work outside if they are leading off. If you are in C, you are a long way from a play a 1b.

do you know any particular reasoning on why that mechanic is still used on the 50/70 field or is it that the inside mechanic is reserved for 60/90 in your area? would be interested to know

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MPLSMatt    78

Just pure speculation but I'd say a few reasons:

1) Many of the 50/70 fields are all dirt (and we don't use a mound here for those levels), so young umpires have a hard time gauging where they should be on the field if inside.

2) These 50/70 fields are usually the same fields as the 60 ft fields, just with the mound and bases in different holes and umpires assume since they work outside for 60, they will work it for 70.

3) Inside still "feels" fairly close on 50/70 and depending on age (we play 13yos there here), those kids can rip it.

4) My group of umpires can be lemmings and they saw someone else do it so why not.

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BRUMP    469

Just pure speculation but I'd say a few reasons:

1) Many of the 50/70 fields are all dirt (and we don't use a mound here for those levels), so young umpires have a hard time gauging where they should be on the field if inside.

2) These 50/70 fields are usually the same fields as the 60 ft fields, just with the mound and bases in different holes and umpires assume since they work outside for 60, they will work it for 70.

3) Inside still "feels" fairly close on 50/70 and depending on age (we play 13yos there here), those kids can rip it.

4) My group of umpires can be lemmings and they saw someone else do it so why not.

1 I cant imagine it being that hard once the infield is positioned if you know 60/90 mechanics

2 I can see that to an extent but wouldnt they notice the different level of baseball would call for different mechanics

3 What league still plays 50/70 at 13? Around here the 60/90 begins fall of the 12U yr...although it feels close i contend that it feels worse being farther away

not picking on you or your group just my observations

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Richvee    1,724

I did a lot of 50/70 travel ball this spring. We have no edict from our group as to where to be. Personally, there's no way I'm working outside on 70 foot bases with leads. It's just to far away. The inside is the place to be using 90 ft mechanics. Yeah, you better be on you toes because that ball can get on you in a hurry. I know there's some "Less agile" guys in our group that don't want anything to do with working inside. Unfortunately by working outside they're usually out of position for for some calls for the same reason they're not inside. Just a not mobile enough. We don't get assigned base/plate in this group, so when I see I'm with one of these guys that don't move around quite so freely I'll try to talk him into taking the plate.

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MPLSMatt    78

Just pure speculation but I'd say a few reasons:

1) Many of the 50/70 fields are all dirt (and we don't use a mound here for those levels), so young umpires have a hard time gauging where they should be on the field if inside.

2) These 50/70 fields are usually the same fields as the 60 ft fields, just with the mound and bases in different holes and umpires assume since they work outside for 60, they will work it for 70.

3) Inside still "feels" fairly close on 50/70 and depending on age (we play 13yos there here), those kids can rip it.

4) My group of umpires can be lemmings and they saw someone else do it so why not.

1 I cant imagine it being that hard once the infield is positioned if you know 60/90 mechanics

2 I can see that to an extent but wouldnt they notice the different level of baseball would call for different mechanics

3 What league still plays 50/70 at 13? Around here the 60/90 begins fall of the 12U yr...although it feels close i contend that it feels worse being farther away

not picking on you or your group just my observations

1) It's not. Some of our umps are very, very green at this age level (especially in the rec league)

2) You would think

3) Not feeling picked on at all. Both the rec and travel ball league I do (no affiliated with one another) do 52/75 for their 13s. Should be on the big field as far as I'm concerned but it's not.

Not trying to "big time" my group or anything. They gave me my start and without getting the chance as a young smitty, I never would've found this place and learned to do it right. I just wish a few others would do the same thing!

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th3    271

i do a lot of 57/70 and we use big field mechanics - except when solo!

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KLAH316    378

Anything where there is leadoffs, use the 60/90 mechanics and positioning.....

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Dannytheman    299

I am not as fast as I use to be, I am going with the majority here and working inside when the kids can steal and take leads. I like that some leagues are changing to 50-70 for the 12s and Major level. Some of the kids are really ready, the older 12s especially. They get bigger sooner now!!(The kids that is)

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Jocko    2,592

If you're calling balks, work inside.

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kylejt    518

I did a 50/70 game, with kids that just came off a LL World Series championship. Big kids (6'), using big barrled bats, with no restrictions (B2's). It was truly frightening, and I feared for the pitchers and third baseman throughout the game. If I had a base umpire, I'd worry about him, too. I would have moved him outside, on a game like this.

So I'd gauge my answer on the type of players on the field. This is truly a transitional field, as are the sizes of the players. If you've got 13 year olds, at that short distance, I'd think twice.

LL has incorporated 50/70, but given us no guidance on mechanics. I've worked Mustang games, 11/12, where inside is no problem. But LL allows 13's.

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Jocko    2,592

how would you have moved him? I bristle at this thought.

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kylejt    518

how would you have moved him? I bristle at this thought.

I would have suggested he move outside. See, most of the time I'm working with a Junior umpire on the bases. (13-16 year old). They'll heed my advice.

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Jocko    2,592

how would you have moved him? I bristle at this thought.

I would have suggested he move outside. See, most of the time I'm working with a Junior umpire on the bases. (13-16 year old). They'll heed my advice.

ok. Whew!

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Texarkana    4

Every year I help out a friend and umpire the Dixie kids state tourny. Dixie is pretty adament that if you have closed bases (no leads) you must work on the outside. It is to see if the kids leave early. You have national and state guys there so umpires can not change what Dixie wants. This leaves you with terrible angles and other challenges. Fortunately I usually umpire it with another guy who has experience so we really have to help each other out. When you are in "C" you are almost in left field. The home plate umpire has got to help on pulled foot etc or you will have major problems. I see a lot of guys move over to "B" if there are two outs but I advise against it. They are pretty staunch in the mechanics they want used, so when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

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kylejt    518

A two man, 60', C postion call at firstbase, from behind the shortshort stop is, IMO, the toughest routine call in organized ball.

I move to B, or better still, draw a 2nd to 3rd extended line, about 12' from 2nd, for just a runner on third. You're still looking down the barrel for a throw back to third, but have a much better view of the logical play at first. I draw a line from F4 to F6, and take one step back on that extended baseline.

Back to 50/70. We're using wood bats for this division at my park this Fall. That way we can work inside with a suit of armour.

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mstaylor    1,504

Every year I help out a friend and umpire the Dixie kids state tourny. Dixie is pretty adament that if you have closed bases (no leads) you must work on the outside. It is to see if the kids leave early. You have national and state guys there so umpires can not change what Dixie wants. This leaves you with terrible angles and other challenges. Fortunately I usually umpire it with another guy who has experience so we really have to help each other out. When you are in "C" you are almost in left field. The home plate umpire has got to help on pulled foot etc or you will have major problems. I see a lot of guys move over to "B" if there are two outs but I advise against it. They are pretty staunch in the mechanics they want used, so when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I don't understand why working outside on closed bases is a problem? You have to watch leaving early and you can't do that if they are behind you. If you are in C then you have a R2. A ball hit to the left side should be going to third or home depending on runners. If they do go to first, outside C is not the much difference in length than inside 90. Also once the ball is hit you can start moving and that means getting closer. If I am in C and there is a steal at third, I take it inside. Most go straight across and take it outside, I don't like the angle.

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I will be honest with you guys. I use 70'/90' mechanics on the bases at all levels because I personally find it easier to watch the foot pull at first. Then again, I have to trust my partner on runners leaving early at second. 

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