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mstaylor

By mstaylor
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jjb

jjb

Posted
Posted

Ooh, a classic Charlie Foxtrot if I ever saw one. I saw the tag of the runner at second, but I wonder if the Oakland second baseman appealed verbally that he left early. You really can't "wargame" this one. You just get together with both coaches, tell them what you've got, and let the fur fly.

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Umpete

Umpete

Posted
Posted

Clusterflop.

Hoye goes out on the ball.... Hirshbeck calls R1 safe at 2B. Then it all gets reversed? Based on what?

I assume (I know, dangerous) that Hoye calls the B/R out, ball dropped on the transfer, but Hirshbeck doesn't see the out call. No replay shows Hoye make the call.

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BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted

I assume (I know, dangerous) that Hoye calls the B/R out, ball dropped on the transfer, but Hirshbeck doesn't see the out call. No replay shows Hoye make the call.

That's not a safe assumption - - and this is why (and when) the whole turns into a clusterflop. How does Hirschbeck know what the call is? And note too, that Young appears to give a quick glance (let's assume he's stealing a look over at Hoye for his signal) - - so without knowing what it was that Hoye did, there's no way to figure this out, because we don't know what Hoye did... but I think it can be safely assumed that there is one thing he didn't do: sell the call. Loudly.

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mazzamouth

mazzamouth

Posted
Posted

IMHO as an armchair umpire the play below is ruled correctly in my judgment, and the play at the top is ruled incorrectly with regards to complete control and voluntary release in my judgment. And my judgment is probably pretty horsesh?t.

Each umpire and each crew is being evaluated on their calls by their supervisors and superiors and it could even be adjudged by their superiors that each crew ruled incorrectly on both of these. The calls rendered during the year are judged and used to determine playoff assignments.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11647063

I will politely disagree with the play below.. the 2nd baseman reached into hi glove to grab the ball and it fell out.. to me IMO and judgment that is in the transfer, I have a out at 2nd.

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JaxRolo

JaxRolo

Posted
Posted

Well, here is the clean exchange rule or more commonly the wording used is---In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary. A ball will be ruled caught when the momentum of the catch is completed and the player voluntarily releases the ball (the above is taken from a combination of forums and they may have used OBR or MLBUM or a combination of both). All of the above points are in the umpires judgment of course.

So, I believe Mr. G is arguing this point as evidenced by his actions. He could be referencing the play the announcers are talking about, or he could be referencing the play below where he gets tossed for arguing the other way.

When the ball is hidden in the glove and the player is sticking his hand inside to go get the ball, it is much easier to sell that he had control in the exchange from the glove to the hand, if the ball goes out to the side of or behind the fielder or up in the air like he lost control after he cocked his wrist back in the throwing motion, rather than if the ball goes straight down to the ground as if it was dropped in the momentum of the catch sequence without a voluntary release.

IMHO as an armchair umpire the play below is ruled correctly in my judgment, and the play at the top is ruled incorrectly with regards to complete control and voluntary release in my judgment. And my judgment is probably pretty horsesh?t.

Each umpire and each crew is being evaluated on their calls by their supervisors and superiors and it could even be adjudged by their superiors that each crew ruled incorrectly on both of these. The calls rendered during the year are judged and used to determine playoff assignments.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11647063

I will have to say that this play is also ruled incorrect. It was dropped on the transfer.

Then again West makes a little bit more money than I do for doing games.

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dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted (edited)

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary. A ball will be ruled caught when the momentum of the catch is completed and the player voluntarily releases the ball.

Here are some other clean exchange, clean transfer or complete control of the ball and voluntary release opportunities during the year for perusal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11055773

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7620299

Umpires assigned to work the Division Series shall be notified of their assignment on the next to the last Saturday of the regular season (9-25-2010). Umpires assigned to work the LCS shall be notified of their assignment on the last Saturday of the regular season (10-2-2010). Umpires assigned to work the WS shall be notified of their assignment on the day after the end of the last Division Series.

The WS umpires will be picked from those working the DS.

Umpire notification and the public's notification are 2 separate things entirely.

Edited by dumbdumb
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dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted
On 9/22/2010 at 7:46 AM, dumbdumb said:

Well, here is the clean exchange rule or more commonly the wording used is---In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary. A ball will be ruled caught when the momentum of the catch is completed and the player voluntarily releases the ball (the above is taken from a combination of forums and they may have used OBR or MLBUM or a combination of both). All of the above points are in the umpires judgment of course.

 

So, I believe Mr. G is arguing this point as evidenced by his actions. He could be referencing the play the announcers are talking about, or he could be referencing the play below where he gets tossed for arguing the other way.

 

When the ball is hidden in the glove and the player is sticking his hand inside to go get the ball, it is much easier to sell that he had control in the exchange from the glove to the hand, if the ball goes out to the side of or behind the fielder or up in the air like he lost control after he cocked his wrist back in the throwing motion, rather than if the ball goes straight down to the ground as if it was dropped in the momentum of the catch sequence without a voluntary release.

 

IMHO as an armchair umpire the play below is ruled correctly in my judgment, and the play at the top is ruled incorrectly with regards to complete control and voluntary release in my judgment. And my judgment is probably pretty brutal.

 

Each umpire and each crew is being evaluated on their calls by their supervisors and superiors and it could even be adjudged by their superiors that each crew ruled incorrectly on both of these. The calls rendered during the year are judged and used to determine playoff assignments.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11647063

 

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