Register or Sign In to remove these ads
Kevin Finnerty

List of Causes for Automatic Ejection

51 posts in this topic

A year ago, I was accused of having a quick ejection, when I ejected a batter for standing in the batter's box after being called out on strikes, and while leaning on his bat as though it was a cane, looking at me and screaming, "You are fu - - - - - kidding me!" And he highlighted the F-bomb.

I think it was automatic in several different ways: He disputed balls and strikes; he did it in unsportsmanlike fashion; he stood there and showed me up; and he blasted an F-bomb at full volume. It was as automatic as any ejection I ever had. To date, I have asked 43 umpires and several distinguished head coaches if it was automatic. The umpires are from my level or above, including two current and two former MLB umpires, and so far the tally is unanimous.

The guy who called it quick was the owner of the league, who was also the player's manager. He got the other managers to vote to overturn it, so his suspended CF could play in a playoff game. The assignor did nothing but laugh it off. So I did the right thing: I quit his league, telling the owner that I wasn't the kind of umpire his league required. I also told him that he'll be getting the umpiring he deserves.

Every day and twice on Sundays. This ej is such a no-brainer. I woulda quit the "league" too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register or Sign In to remove these ads

*taking hat off, and does not put it back on head after warning

I gotta tell ya, that's a new one.

"Listen, Skip, you better put your lid back on. This is your warning"

I can't imagine ever saying that to a grown man.

And I always thought removing ones chapeau was sign of respect, I mean, we all do it after the final putt on the 18th, before shaking hands, right?

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd... "put it back on or were not talking"...I will not EJ.. but we will not talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worked at many levels and been to clinics with some pretty good pro instructors and I have never heard anything about hat on/hat off. I do teach a mechanic for a slammed hat. If a coach throws his hat down when arguing with you, step on it, turn while on it and toss him. He is now going to pick up a very nasty hat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would definitely be more concerned with beaking or turn it backwards to get closer in your face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd...

Honestly, Mr. Bologna, I've never heard that before. If dofting one's cap is some sort of insult, I'll have to remember that. Now I can see other articles of clothing, for sure. But a hat? I dunno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd...

Honestly, Mr. Bologna, I've never heard that before. If dofting one's cap is some sort of insult, I'll have to remember that. Now I can see other articles of clothing, for sure. But a hat? I dunno.

well him taking his hat off... and just holding it is telling everyone what?... that is is unhappy with your call...Just telling you what i have been taught.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd...

Honestly, Mr. Bologna, I've never heard that before. If dofting one's cap is some sort of insult, I'll have to remember that. Now I can see other articles of clothing, for sure. But a hat? I dunno.

And Mr. Bologna I hate that crap :smachhead:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if you get "beaked?" That is a hat issue that the old school MLB guys will know about.

That's considered intentional contact with an umpire and an automatic hook.

If they're going to get that close in a confrontation, they're going to be held responsible for any contact that happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A year ago, I was accused of having a quick ejection, when I ejected a batter for standing in the batter's box after being called out on strikes, and while leaning on his bat as though it was a cane, looking at me and screaming, "You are fu - - - - - kidding me!" And he highlighted the F-bomb.

I think it was automatic in several different ways: He disputed balls and strikes; he did it in unsportsmanlike fashion; he stood there and showed me up; and he blasted an F-bomb at full volume. It was as automatic as any ejection I ever had. To date, I have asked 43 umpires and several distinguished head coaches if it was automatic. The umpires are from my level or above, including two current and two former MLB umpires, and so far the tally is unanimous.

The guy who called it quick was the owner of the league, who was also the player's manager. He got the other managers to vote to overturn it, so his suspended CF could play in a playoff game. The assignor did nothing but laugh it off. So I did the right thing: I quit his league, telling the owner that I wasn't the kind of umpire his league required. I also told him that he'll be getting the umpiring he deserves.

48 now...

No question it was an immediate, automatic EJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd...

Honestly, Mr. Bologna, I've never heard that before. If dofting one's cap is some sort of insult, I'll have to remember that. Now I can see other articles of clothing, for sure. But a hat? I dunno.

And Mr. Bologna I hate that crap :smachhead:

Are you related to either "I-Zheet M'Drurz" or "Hous Bin Pharteen"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking his hat off is trying to incite the crowd...

Honestly, Mr. Bologna, I've never heard that before. If dofting one's cap is some sort of insult, I'll have to remember that. Now I can see other articles of clothing, for sure. But a hat? I dunno.

And Mr. Bologna I hate that crap :smachhead:

Are you related to either "I-Zheet M'Drurz" or "Hous Bin Pharteen"?

They are my cousins..LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kevin

Since you are doing a men's league, they pretty much know exactly what they are doing when they do their verbal antics or try to show the umpire up. If they do not cuss, they think they can get away with running all over you. They must be aware that you can just as easily get ejected without profanity, just like the example of drawing a line. In the Earl Weaver/Bill Haller case, when Earl comes out and says, you and this crew are out here for one reason, to $$$$ us. Earl could have easily used the word "hose" rather than profanity. He should also be ejected for the word hose. The men's league guys are going to go on and on about how they didn't even cuss and how bad you are for the ejection. Tell them that thinking is a bunch of crapola.

These must be delt with immediately, even if you do not eject. Remember, each side is watching how you handle the other side.

1. Drawing a line. Pointing with the bat several times at the outside corner while the bat is in the air and they are telling you it is outside. Smashing the bat on the plate.

2. Batter backing out on every pitch they think you missed along with shaking their heads, or other body language.

3. Batter putting his hand up at the chest if he thinks the ball is too high.

4. Batter dropping the bat on plate, not picking it up, and continuing on to the dugout on the 1st or 2nd out. Watch out for the bat boy quickly trying to get the bat for him if you tell the batter to pick it up or you are done.

5. Manager or head coach flipping you off with their hands.

6. Coach starting a count of misses they perceive on calls. That's 2 ump.

7. Coach telling you or the team, "well its 11 on 9 tonight guy's and making sure you hear it. Then when you respond, they are going to tell you they were not talking to you. They are trying to make you look bad with their cheap shot loud enough for you to hear. Tell them you don't care if they were talking to a fence post, knock it off.

8. Be ready after telling them to knock it off, for them to call you rabbit ears. Or, "get your head out of our dugout".

9. Be ready for the word "brutal" to come up in the men's league. They will also use the phrase "bare down out there" like your not working hard.

10. Where was that pitch?

11. Call it both ways back there.

12. Catchers picking up dirt to let the coach know you missed a pitch. This is done very subtly and easy to miss. Could be some other signal.

13. Catcher breaking down like he is going to keel over when he thinks you missed a pitch.

14. Catcher getting up slowly and double pumping on throws back to pitcher when he thinks you missed one. There could be other body language the catcher uses for this also.

15. Pitcher scoping pitches from the mound.

16. Pitcher using arm motions sign for the "where was that pitch" verbal phrase.

17. Pitcher yelling in from the mound. Fielders yelling in including outfielders or throwing up their hands on pitches.

18. Pitcher rolling the ball in to you on the ground if he doesn't like your calls when you ask to check the ball.

19. Coach waiting on the mound for you so he can start a ball/strike discussion.

20. Coach wants to come out on every close call. They do not get unlimited trips on close calls. They do not get to question every close call. Do not let them hide behind the "I'm only asking a question" excuse. They know exactly what they are doing, and they know if you dump them, they can loudly tell everyone they were only asking a question and can call the assignor telling them how they didn't cuss and were only asking a question. Once again, these guys know exactly what they are doing.

21. That's a Little League call. Well here's a Little League ejection. Boom.

22. Coach who wants to come on field and touch the ground where they think the ball landed fair foul.

23. On an all dirt field coach going to the outfield to point at spot on the line.

24. Any other coniving tricks they will try and use to show you up and look like innocent choir boys.

Every now and then a quick, "that pitch is low" or high" should not warrant a response. A running commentary, should immediately be delt with.

It is perfectly OK to get ejected if that is what you really want, as that is part of the game. In your manual, tell the manager/coach to just throw his hat in disgust, tell you that you are terrible or that you suck and then leave. Quick, to the point and get off the field after the ejection is OK. Trying to get your money's worth is not OK.

Yes you were correct for dumping the batter. You are very fortunate to have other umpiring alternatives. Many would not be able to feasibly do anything other than quit altogether.

And it is always good to remember the words of Hall of Famer Al Barlick.

"Though it's very bad to eject a player when he shouldn't be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected."

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worked at many levels and been to clinics with some pretty good pro instructors and I have never heard anything about hat on/hat off. I do teach a mechanic for a slammed hat. If a coach throws his hat down when arguing with you, step on it, turn while on it and toss him. He is now going to pick up a very nasty hat.

Maybe this would work in a Men's League.

I doubt I would try this in high school or college ball. Then again, I really doubt any of the coaches would throw their hats down in high school or college ball here.

Great topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HS is exactly where it happened and I learned the mechanic. Never have had it happen to me so I haven't had to try it. I assure it will be a dirty hat no matter the level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)

I actually had this happen last year in a travel ball game. Grounder deep in the hole, runner on second cehating on short to make the putout throw to first base. BR beat the throw. Safe. I managed to cal the play dead by the time coach reached the chalk line. He ended up screwing himself out of a run because I put the runner advancing from second back third because the PU immediately "froze" the runner in his mind when he heard me call time. After coach said his piece ( I did not EJ him ) I walked over to PU and said "you got the runner?" he said yep, he was about 10 feet from home plate, and there was no way a throw was going to nail him. I said I am putting him back on third and he said I got your back 100 percent and that was that.

Next inning , in A position first base coach comes up to me and says what about the kid at third, and I said he would have scored easily, according to my partner. Coach says not the first time that has happened.

If anyone would have done it differently, I am all ears!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)

I actually had this happen last year in a travel ball game. Grounder deep in the hole, runner on second cehating on short to make the putout throw to first base. BR beat the throw. Safe. I managed to cal the play dead by the time coach reached the chalk line. He ended up screwing himself out of a run because I put the runner advancing from second back third because the PU immediately "froze" the runner in his mind when he heard me call time. After coach said his piece ( I did not EJ him ) I walked over to PU and said "you got the runner?" he said yep, he was about 10 feet from home plate, and there was no way a throw was going to nail him. I said I am putting him back on third and he said I got your back 100 percent and that was that.

Next inning , in A position first base coach comes up to me and says what about the kid at third, and I said he would have scored easily, according to my partner. Coach says not the first time that has happened.

If anyone would have done it differently, I am all ears!

I'm not killing the play while there is still action going on. And then the coach is headed for the parking lot for coming on the field while the ball is still live. He won't even get the courtesy of voicing his concern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)

I was told of an umpire who called a runner safe at 2B, and the minor league manager sprinted from the dugout waiving his arms and generally acting like an a$$. The umpire waited for the skipper to run all the way out, side-stepped him and tossed him. The manager didn't even get to speak and he was gone.

Sweet.

The OBR states that the umpire shall call time when a manager requests "time" for a substitution, or for a conference with one of his players. Rule 5.10(d) As for coming onto the field during a live ball, the J/R manual and WUM agree that this action should be considered a request for time, but only granted when play ("continuous action") has ceased.

A coach may interfere with a fielder or obstruct a runner. However, we have rules regarding these actions. Simply crossing the lines and causing confusion does not by itself immediately kill a live ball or create a penalty situation.

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worked at many levels and been to clinics with some pretty good pro instructors and I have never heard anything about hat on/hat off. I do teach a mechanic for a slammed hat. If a coach throws his hat down when arguing with you, step on it, turn while on it and toss him. He is now going to pick up a very nasty hat.

Maybe this would work in a Men's League.

I doubt I would try this in high school or college ball. Then again, I really doubt any of the coaches would throw their hats down in high school or college ball here.

Great topic.

I would be careful about stepping on a hat. I know of a college umpire who was reprimanded by a conference for intentionally stepping on a hat during an argument.

As far as hat on/hat off during an argument...The coach/manager needs to have his hat on his head at all times. If he takes it off, warn him, maybe warn him a second time, then eject. It is kind of fun to have a discussion with them - they're upset, and you respond with "put your hat on or I'm not talking to you."

Someone coming on the field during a live ball situation = ejection

Someone sprinting from the dugout to argue = ejection

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That may be true, but I assure you if a manager stupid enough to throw his hat down, it's getting dirty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentleman, while at The Umpire School this January, I was able to see guidelines The School and PBUC teaches its Minor League Umpires (and prospective ones) in regards to removing players, coaches and managers from a game.

Here is a reprint of those very good 10 reasons and guiding principles:

http://goodcallsbaseball.blogspot.com/2012/02/umpire-ejection-standards-for-removal.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentleman, while at The Umpire School this January, I was able to see guidelines The School and PBUC teaches its Minor League Umpires (and prospective ones) in regards to removing players, coaches and managers from a game.

Here is a reprint of those very good 10 reasons and guiding principles:

http://goodcallsbase...or-removal.html

How awesome is it that this board inspired a goodcalls blog. LOL way to go guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of throwing hats, I was at a Detroit Tigers game many years ago when Sparky Anderson came roaring out of the dugout to protest a call. He ranted on for a few minutes and then took his hat off and threw it halfway across the infield and was promptly dumped. Next day the paper quoted Sparky as saying " The umpire told me if that hat touches the ground your gone" It did, and he was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now