Mad Mike

NFHS NFHS allows both live and dead ball appeals. My question is related to what constitutes a proper live ball appeal on a runner who failed to tag up. SITUATION: R1 and R3, 1 out. Batted ball to deep right field. Caught for out #2. R3 does not tag and scored. R2 tags up and advanced to second. Ball comes in from the outfield and is thrown to the pitcher. Pitcher engages the rubber. Pitcher, without disengaging, steps and throws to third. Third baseman, now in possession of the ball verbally appeals R3 leaving early. Is this a proper method to appeal? Some umpires believe this is a balk and cancels the right to appeal (because third is no longer occupied and you can't throw to an unoccupied base without stepping back off the rubber). If there are any casebook cites, interpretation cites, etc. please add those. I have a steak dinner riding on this!

@SeeingEyeDog High school level. Our commissioner is a college official. I understand the point's above about the timing of the flag. What we don't know is if this guy had been warned earlier in the game and/or his coach. Since he didn't even look over at the official, this is more than likely going to increase the chance of a flag being dropped.

Our football commissioner gave us some good advice to avoid flagging for an offside penalty: If it is a regular play, warn the player and let the coach know. If it continues, a flag will have to come out. However, if it is a trick play, then the offense has to execute perfectly. So, for example on a kickoff, let's say the kicking team boots it deep. If they have a gunner a yard beyond the ball before it is kicked, we will notify the special teams coach that # so and so was offside. If he does it again, we get that one. On the other hand, if the kicking team executes an on-side kick, the free kick line is treated like a pane of glass-nobody better be off-side. They have to execute trickeration perfectly to avoid a foul being called. In the Chiefs case, they ran a trick play......and did not execute perfectly. Frankly, Andy Reid should know better and so should the players. If this had been a run of the mill play, I would bet money no foul would have been called....unless Tony and/or the Chief's coaches had been previously put on notice.

@JonnyCat makes a very good point here. If new guys join up and work by themselves, they get an earful from coaches and fans. Guess what? They don't come back due to feeling like they are all on their own....which they essentially are! Try that in any profession, if you don't get positive feedback-even when mistakes are made, you either think this is not for me or why would I want to put myself through all this crap?! New umps also get bad habits which screws them in the long run and makes it miserable for coaches, players and fans too. If it seems like nobody has your back, then you either become one of three people: 1) A redass umpire-throwing anyone out who says one minor thing 2) A push over who takes abuse left and right 3) A used car salesman or some other profession, just not an umpire

Kind of late to the party, but to answer @collectablechris question, take a look at this from closecallsports.com: https://www.closecallsports.com/2023/04/odor-misses-home-kim-scores-odor-out-on.html

A little different approach was taken by a local football league in our area. They implemented a policy that if a parent or guardian of the kid gets 86'd from a game, then the kid attached to the adult gets banned too. They didn't do this lightly. It was after several years of having repeat problems with the "adults" they had to make the decision to cut their losses and remove the reason for the "adult" coming to the games in the first place. It is sad to see the kid get affected by the adult in this scenario. However, they had the adults and kids sign an agreement before the season started. The rule was very clear to everybody involved. One parent stepped over the line and he was booted out, along with his kid. They did agree to refund any fees if they had to kick a kid and parent(s)/guardian(s) out. It has worked out pretty well. Last year, for the first time in a while they had fewer problems to deal with. It seems to have placed the adults on notice they better stand up for their kid in the correct way-which means cheering them on and not getting over the top with poor behavior. This seems to be an approach other leagues should consider trying. If the kid ain't on the diamond, then maybe the asshat won't be around causing problems for everybody.

And now for a little story, check out this 8 year old kid who might just be the youngest umpire ever! He has one hell of a chain saw strike three call! Batter up! This 8-year-old is looking to become the world's youngest baseball umpire | Watch (msn.com)

OBR Situation: R1 & R3. No outs. Pitched ball. Batter swings-no interference. Catcher throws to second and retires R1. F6 prepares to throw home to get R3 who is advancing on the plate. As the slide from R1 begins to conclude, R1 reaches up and prevents F6 from throwing home. Umpire rules interference on R1. Since R1 is already out, question is: Do we send R3 back to third, or declare him out for his teammates interference? I looked at a couple of rule cites 5.09 (a) 13 and 6.01 (j). However, while 6.01 (j) addresses double play attempts, I would think it might still be applicable in this play, similar to a defensive team attempting to get a double play at first-only in this case, it will be a home plate. If we don't get an out on R3 here, while we do not allow a score to occur, we are not really penalizing the interference. On another interference scenario: R1, with a batter striking out, stepping across the plate, and umpire rules interference-the catcher does not retire the advancing runner. We have the batter out on strikes and R1 out for the batter's interference. Please chime in how we would handle the R1/R3 situation above and if you think these rule references are on-point. I am hoping to hear from @Senor Azul too!

Tell the coaches you are going to talk to their batters with something like this: “You better be swinging. You're standing in the strike zone.” But seriously, know the zone for the level you are playing at. As others noted, refer them to the rule book. But practically, call more strikes and your game will go better. Coaches don't need to know if you are gonna call pitches strikes that are in the channel (the area between the edge of the plate to the start of the batters box). They will find out soon enough!

Props to @Senorazul for his rulings. I can't believe we are going to allow the defense to pull that kind of crap by intentionally stuffing a ball in their pocket to kill a play. I like what @The Man In Blue was saying on an above post. Common sense needs to play a part here. While a bit off the topic, take a look at what Ted Barret had to say about the 3 base award for detached player equipment (I know...it's OBR), but at the 2:50 mark, watch the clip and Chris will ask him about a ball player who asked him, "Why don't I just throw my mitt at a home run ball and knock it down, it will be a three base award instead of a home run." Barrett sets it strait-the umpire will use common sense and allow it to be a home run. The common sense ruling is to not bail out the defense for an act they created. We use the rules to solve a problem-not create one.

Just for a little fun....and I know this is OBR, but take a look at Jose Altuve putting the ball in his pocket. Jose Altuve tried to pull off a hidden-ball trick by stashing the baseball in his pocket | MLB.com Umpires did not make any awards on the play.

Mechanically speaking, the HP umpire ringing this guy up is not optimal. The ball was on the ground. He was so busy ringing him up that he does not even get a good look at whether there was a tag or not....he certainly did not rule on whether a tag was successful or not, nor did he give a 'safe' signal to signify no catch. Like Lin pointed out, I wonder if there was an verbalization. BTW-The base ump did not even appear to pick up touches by the runners. What else could we have done differently here?

You mentioned the following in your post: "After a few minutes of the rest of the bench joning in with the call New York stuff, I take off my mask and say "that's enough. We're not doing that." A player on the bench then proceeds to sing Taylor Swift's Welcome to New York. While I am just as much of a Swiftie as anyone else, the song choice wasn't great, but I decide to shrug shake it off. The team continues to argue essentially every call that is even remotley close." IMO: The kid who started singing Welcome to New York should have been ejected. You just got through telling them "that's enough. We're not doing that." If you don't follow through after the warning, they will think it's okay to keep walking on you. Guys on the site always say, "shoot one monkey and the rest get in line." A lot of good advice on here. Thanks for posting. You handled this as well as could be expected for a new umpire. You have a bright future ahead of you....just don't let kids sing Taylor Swift on your field!

Jim Evans taught us to carry a small notebook and pencil in our pocket. In between innings, write down what you did well and what you want to post-game. It might be a judgement call, it might be a rule application, it might even be how you dealt with an asshat coach or player (or in some cases did not deal with them properly). Anyway, the point here is to write it down so you can make sure to post-game it with your partner and more importantly, FLUSH it and move on. I have found that writing it down allows me the freedom to let it go because I can address it post-game.

Another sad chapter in an Umpire being assaulted in Florida. Sounds like he was an asshat at previous games. Too bad nobody stepped up and banned this guy before he injured the umpire. Video shows dad knocking out umpire at son’s baseball game | Watch (msn.com)