Buyer Beware

[boyinr]

Post deleted

[johnnyg08]

What method of payment did you use?  

[Replacematt]

While I'm sure there's a legitimate gripe and warning here, I'm not so sure this board wants to be in the business of providing a forum for it. It opens a huge can of worms if someone down the road decides to take out a personal beef with someone by making up a story about being stiffed. I also don't think the admins want to be responsible for validating these types of posts lest they be held liable if there ends up being some falsehoods being stated.

[JaxRolo]

I think it does belong here. We need to look out for each other

[Replacematt]

I agree that we need to look out for each other, but what happens the day that an innocent person is called out by name and has his reputation and career affected?

[Majordave]

Libel and slander exist as torts to correct untruthful things written or stated orally about others. The truth is an absolute defense.

[VAUmp]

That sucks

[Rich Ives]

Libel and slander exist as torts to correct untruthful things written or stated orally about others. The truth is an absolute defense.

 

The problem becomes that the remedy gained much later in time won't get posted and no one will learn the outcome, leaving the black mark in place even if false.

[Majordave]

It is not a perfect legal system we have but it has adequate, if not timely, remedies.

 

Who says it won't get posted?  That is up to the people involved or that know about the situation as to whether it gets posted or not.  

 

I have learned over my 52 years that memories are very often short in terms of others' transgressions and shortcomings unless they are the victim of the transgression.  Also, I have learned that people very often do not remember what you said or what you did. But, they always, always, always remember how you made them feel.

 

Sorry for the philosophy lesson.  

[Thunderheads]

While I'm sure there's a legitimate gripe and warning here, I'm not so sure this board wants to be in the business of providing a forum for it. It opens a huge can of worms if someone down the road decides to take out a personal beef with someone by making up a story about being stiffed. I also don't think the admins want to be responsible for validating these types of posts lest they be held liable if there ends up being some falsehoods being stated.

Matt,

The only person who'd be liable for anything would be Roger.  And, that would be if he lied in his post, and I don't think he'd do that.  With as many gear whores as we have here on this site, I'm sure Roger is making sure we know that something fishy is going on within a facebook umpire forum, and warning us.   So what?  I'm glad he did.

 

Roger, sorry man, ...that certainly does suck

[MidAmUmp]

I think the first 2 words of the headline mean everything. Buyer Beware.

I would be extremely reluctant to purchase anything from someone online through Facebook. It would take less than an hour to set up a fake email, fake profile, and find/post pictures of anything you wanted to "sell".

I believe I would stick to eBay and other outlets where you can at least dispute something.

[Rich Ives]

 

While I'm sure there's a legitimate gripe and warning here, I'm not so sure this board wants to be in the business of providing a forum for it. It opens a huge can of worms if someone down the road decides to take out a personal beef with someone by making up a story about being stiffed. I also don't think the admins want to be responsible for validating these types of posts lest they be held liable if there ends up being some falsehoods being stated.

Matt,

The only person who'd be liable for anything would be Roger.  And, that would be if he lied in his post, and I don't think he'd do that.  With as many gear whores as we have here on this site, I'm sure Roger is making sure we know that something fishy is going on within a facebook umpire forum, and warning us.   So what?  I'm glad he did.

 

Roger, sorry man, ...that certainly does suck

 

 

There are legal remedies. Why did he choose this path?

[Majordave]

Speaking for myself alone and not for boyinr/Roger:  To keep us all aware of an unreliable thief who claims or claimed to be an umpire.  If he is an umpire the other umpires who know him or have to deal with him, especially those in the Cleveland, Ohio area should know of him and will be warned.

 

Additionally, this effort may directly or indirectly may make this miscreant thief aware of the fact that he has been exposed so maybe he can do the right thing and either ship the product he "sold" or refund the money.

 

And, it's free to post here.  Court and attorneys cost money.  No attorney I know would take this on for the value of the item and the criminal legal system is a bit hard to navigate for interstate crimes using the internet.  The government-legal system often has problems catching up to technology.  

 

The money is not the issue, the fact that a guy claiming to be an umpire, scammed another umpire and other's right to know of a liar and thief claiming to be an umpire is the issue.

 

The umpire community has a right to know and to weigh in and help if possible, as well as to be warned.

 

Of course, you aren't an umpire are you Rich?  So you don't have a dog in the fight, you RAT!

[Rich Ives]

Speaking for myself alone and not for boyinr/Roger:  To keep us all aware of an unreliable thief who claims or claimed to be an umpire.  If he is an umpire the other umpires who know him or have to deal with him, especially those in the Cleveland, Ohio area should know of him and will be warned.

 

Additionally, this effort may directly or indirectly may make this miscreant thief aware of the fact that he has been exposed so maybe he can do the right thing and either ship the product he "sold" or refund the money.

 

And, it's free to post here.  Court and attorneys cost money.  No attorney I know would take this on for the value of the item and the criminal legal system is a bit hard to navigate for interstate crimes using the internet.  The government-legal system often has problems catching up to technology.  

 

The money is not the issue, the fact that a guy claiming to be an umpire, scammed another umpire and other's right to know of a liar and thief claiming to be an umpire is the issue.

 

The umpire community has a right to know and to weigh in and help if possible, as well as to be warned.

 

Of course, you aren't an umpire are you Rich?  So you don't have a dog in the fight, you RAT!

 

Small Claims court. Don't need a lawyer.

 

Feel cheated, file a police report. File a report with the DA. Posting here isn't a remedy, it's a bitch session.

 

And you haven't heard the other side of the story.

 

And what does being or not being an umpire have to do with it?  How to deal with legal problems isn't an umpire problem, it's a legal problem and perhaps a societal problem.

 

No name calling from this end.

[Majordave]

In case you forgot, "RAT" Rich Ives, this is an umpire website.  Umpire-Empire.com   Not RATSRUS.com

 

Since you aren't an umpire why do you come here?  Why do you post here?  Why are you here at all?  

 

Again, this is an umpire website and an umpire was scammed by someone who claimed to be an umpire.  The umpire community has a right to know.  

 

This is an interstate matter as I know boyinr/Roger lives in another state than Ohio.  He isn't going to travel and appear in court in Ohio from where he lives.  Uneconomical.   The criminal prosecutors rarely get involved in interstate sales disputes anyway and they definitely do not if it is not a felony.  Even if it was, it would or could involve boyinr/Roger having to appear in Ohio, again, uneconomical.  I do not know the level of economic loss to amount to a felony in Ohio but I am willing to bet it is more than a hundred bucks.

 

I see boyinr/Roger's post as a public service to us all, UMPIRES, which you again ARE NOT!  

 

You are entitled to your opinion, I choose to make sure everyone knows where you are coming from as a non-umpire and a member of the class we who love baseball are usually at war with because you and your ilk usually will do anything to win and anything to disrespect the umpires and the game itself since you cannot play the game of baseball without an umpire.

 

So, if you don't like the post, great.  If you don't like being called a RAT on an umpire website, by all means, go somewhere else and spend your time.  I, for one, won't miss you and your attitude.  But I will continue to make sure your opinions and posts are noted and call you out as a RAT coach for the perspective you bring to the site when you do post.

[grayhawk]

I agree with the gist of your post (that part about boyinr posting this issue here) @Majordave, but no need to call names and insult Rich.  He gives great insight on this forum and provides a different point-of-view that we can all benefit from.  I don't always agree with him and he sometimes rubs me the wrong way with the style of his posts, but I'm glad he's here.

 

I think you need to dial it back.  JMHO.

[Majordave]

Thanks Steve. I will dial it back but he's still a RAT!  Henceforth, Rich Ives the RAT! ceases to exist in my world.  How's that?  I will ignore him and his ratlike commentary.

[JaxRolo]

There is finally a reply from the seller:

 

guys as I messaged roger, the post office had not sent it yet for whatever reason therefore I didn't have the tracking info that roger requested. It is being sent out today. I am forwarding roger the tracking info as soon as they email it to me. and no im not the guy with the nike masks. not here to rip anyone off.

[Majordave]

Rolo's post is from that Facebook website group page.  I joined.  Proof will be in the pudding but the seller's "Post Office did not ship yet, don't know why" is a bit sketchy.  I bet he forgot to go to the post office until the pressure was on.  Receipts and Roger's report to us will tell, eh?

 

Hope it all ends well.  Soon.

[johnnyg08]

While the remedies above are good remedies, word of mouth is good too.

 

I have no problem with the original post.  The seller has every right to come on here and dispute the claim with evidence too.  

[Rich Ives]

While the remedies above are good remedies, word of mouth is good too.

 

I have no problem with the original post.  The seller has every right to come on here and dispute the claim with evidence too.  

 

If he knows it's here.

[Rich Ives]

In case you forgot, "RAT" Rich Ives, this is an umpire website.  Umpire-Empire.com   Not RATSRUS.com

 

Since you aren't an umpire why do you come here?  Why do you post here?  Why are you here at all?  

 

Again, this is an umpire website and an umpire was scammed by someone who claimed to be an umpire.  The umpire community has a right to know.  

 

This is an interstate matter as I know boyinr/Roger lives in another state than Ohio.  He isn't going to travel and appear in court in Ohio from where he lives.  Uneconomical.   The criminal prosecutors rarely get involved in interstate sales disputes anyway and they definitely do not if it is not a felony.  Even if it was, it would or could involve boyinr/Roger having to appear in Ohio, again, uneconomical.  I do not know the level of economic loss to amount to a felony in Ohio but I am willing to bet it is more than a hundred bucks.

 

I see boyinr/Roger's post as a public service to us all, UMPIRES, which you again ARE NOT!  

 

You are entitled to your opinion, I choose to make sure everyone knows where you are coming from as a non-umpire and a member of the class we who love baseball are usually at war with because you and your ilk usually will do anything to win and anything to disrespect the umpires and the game itself since you cannot play the game of baseball without an umpire.

 

So, if you don't like the post, great.  If you don't like being called a RAT on an umpire website, by all means, go somewhere else and spend your time.  I, for one, won't miss you and your attitude.  But I will continue to make sure your opinions and posts are noted and call you out as a RAT coach for the perspective you bring to the site when you do post.

 

They know who I am - been around for decades - and look at my avatar.

 

I started visiting internet forums with Team Discovery.

 

I thought it would be good to know and understand the rules. Isn't that what umpires want? Or do you want coaches to remain in the dark so you can  rag on them for being ignorant?

[Jocko]

Thanks Steve. I will dial it back but he's still a RAT!  Henceforth, Rich Ives the RAT! ceases to exist in my world.  How's that?  I will ignore him and his ratlike commentary.

I did this MONTHS ago

[basejester]

Of course, you aren't an umpire are you Rich?  So you don't have a dog in the fight, you RAT!

I don't think this is relevant to the discussion.

[Majordave]

Sorry guys. I let him get to me. The offending seller knows of this site. JaxRolo posted a link to this discussion on the Facebook thread. Coincidentally, since Roger started this topic and a similar post on Facebook the seller stopped avoiding Roger's inquiries and claims it is being shipped today.

I hope it is and all right in Roger's world. Soon.

If this thread had something to do with it then good on Roger for doing it. I think we can all learn from this.

As Ronald Reagan said: "Trust but verify. " before you send money to someone you met on the internet.