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Batter taking off to first on ball 3, moves runner


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#1 csabo17

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:26 PM

Im not 100% sure this was intentional, but me and my partner after the game talked and thought it was a designed play. However, at the time I didnt think about it like that.

Bottom of 7th (last inn) r1 0 outs. I give the 2-1 count verbally and physically. Pitch is a ball and the batter starts to first, r1 takes off the second. I yell hey thats just 3 as hes running to first but hes out of ear shot and the catcher just stands there with the ball.
Defensive coach starts screming at the them to get there heads out of there ass, and the offensive couch tells his runner on second to not leave the bag.
My partner sends the batter to the plate and he says sorry I thought it was 3-1. ( i had just given the count before the pitch)

Nothing was said by the defensive coach, and the next batter hits a walk off single. Now i know it more then likely was accidental, but thats a really good play to catch a team sleeping. Are they rules against doing it if we think it was done on purpose?

#2 Jocko

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:29 PM

Nope
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#3 UmpJM

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:31 PM

Not really.

Technically, the batter IS supposed to keep a foot in the box if he doesn't offer at the pitch and it doesn't get away or anything. I don't think I'm going there.

If the defense keeps their head in the game, they should get an easy out.

JM
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#4 csabo17

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

No, ive yet to make the out of box call. Thats a big can of worms your opening the first time you make that call in a game.

#5 Richvee

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:19 PM

An umpire friend of mine was just telling me about a similar play he had a few weeks ago the won a game. Bottom 7, tie score bases loaded, the 2-1 pitch is a ball, and the batter starts jogging to 1st. All runners start advancing. F2 just stood there with the ball as r3 walked across the plate for the winning run. Of course, DM is yelling "that's only ball 3, send the runners back" when my friend said, "Yes coach, that's ball 3, and that runner on 3rd just "stole" home. The game's over.

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#6 Jocko

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:43 PM

An umpire friend of mine was just telling me about a similar play he had a few weeks ago the won a game. Bottom 7, tie score bases loaded, the 2-1 pitch is a ball, and the batter starts jogging to 1st. All runners start advancing. F2 just stood there with the ball as r3 walked across the plate for the winning run. Of course, DM is yelling "that's only ball 3, send the runners back" when my friend said, "Yes coach, that's ball 3, and that runner on 3rd just "stole" home. The game's over.

asleep at the dish. Now THAT'S funny.
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#7 csabo17

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:08 AM

Seems like there would be a rule against it somehow. Killing the action if the batter runs down the line without it being ball 4.

My next question: what do we say? When do we say it? If the runner takes off and there trotting home for the winning run do we immediatley say thats just ball 3 loud enough to try to tell the batter? But your also tipping the catcher off that the runer coming home is live.

#8 Jocko

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:07 AM

Seems like there would be a rule against it somehow. Killing the action if the batter runs down the line without it being ball 4.

My next question: what do we say? When do we say it? If the runner takes off and there trotting home for the winning run do we immediatley say thats just ball 3 loud enough to try to tell the batter? But your also tipping the catcher off that the runer coming home is live.

when batter starts for 1st, I give the count again. Matter of fact like. What will happen will happen.
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#9 renegadewolf

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:21 AM

The onus is on the defense to be aware of what is going on. Do not call time in this situation, I would however inform the Batter that he has only recieved ball 3 as I see him break for first, and as trout putit, what happens from there happens

#10 scrounge

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:23 AM

Seems like there would be a rule against it somehow. Killing the action if the batter runs down the line without it being ball 4.

My next question: what do we say? When do we say it? If the runner takes off and there trotting home for the winning run do we immediatley say thats just ball 3 loud enough to try to tell the batter? But your also tipping the catcher off that the runer coming home is live.


I don't know why there should be. Unless you caused it by announcing the wrong count, it's on them to know. If you said it right, correcting a runner would be coaching. Let the hilarity ensue!

In fact, the FED umpires manual kind of backs up the point of not saying anything, albeit in a slightly different situation. It talks about, when a ball 4 is received, if the batter doesn't go to 1B to not say anything for a second. The pause while the batter just standst there going "duh" when he should be walking to 1B is instructional to both player and coach to be more aware of the situation. It stands to reason that if the umpires manual puts the onus on the offense to know the count and know when it's ball 4, the onus should similarly be on the defense to know it's ball 3.

Again, barring an action on your part to facilitate their confusion like announcing a wrong count, don't save them from themselves.

#11 Dragon29

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

I yell hey thats just 3 as hes running to first but hes out of ear shot . . .


I don't know about you, but I'm pretty loud. There is nowhere on the infield that's out of earshot when I'm shouting.

My next question: what do we say? When do we say it?

"That's Ball 3!" immediately as the BR starts down the line.

If the runner takes off and there trotting home for the winning run do we immediatley say thats just ball 3 loud enough to try to tell the batter?

Yes, but even louder.

But your also tipping the catcher off that the runer coming home is live.

Catcher should already know - you're 'tipping off' nothing.

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#12 umpire_scott

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:29 PM

I have this situation a lot on strike 3 as well. Many coaches, especially at the younger levels, teach their kids to run to first on every strike 3. They are hoping to draw a throw and then possibly get an overthrow so other runners can advance. With the younger kids you then get coaches and parents yelling things and the catcher often panics and does just what the OC wants him to do and throw down to first.

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#13 Jocko

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:37 PM

I have this situation a lot on strike 3 as well. Many coaches, especially at the younger levels, teach their kids to run to first on every strike 3. They are hoping to draw a throw and then possibly get an overthrow so other runners can advance. With the younger kids you then get coaches and parents yelling things and the catcher often panics and does just what the OC wants him to do and throw down to first.

That's the DC's job. I know it's crap, but it is what it is. Hammmer the out and whatever happens happens.

What do you do when it IS d3k and 1st is occupied with less than 2 out? You call him out. Simple.
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#14 stl_ump

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:09 PM


Seems like there would be a rule against it somehow. Killing the action if the batter runs down the line without it being ball 4.

My next question: what do we say? When do we say it? If the runner takes off and there trotting home for the winning run do we immediatley say thats just ball 3 loud enough to try to tell the batter? But your also tipping the catcher off that the runer coming home is live.

when batter starts for 1st, I give the count again. Matter of fact like. What will happen will happen.

+1

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