Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Are educated managers more or less likely to be reasonable?


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 JHSump

JHSump
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Joined 30-June 11
  • LocationBlacksburg, Virginia


Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

Interesting article about Davey Johnson:

http://www.nytimes.c...h-movement.html

Makes me wonder: are highly educated managers (at any level) more likely to be reasonable/professional in their dealings with umpires? Or, are they more likely be be devious? What are your thoughts/experiences?

(And I have no idea about Johnson in this regard, so comments on him would be interesting also.)

#2 Welpe

Welpe
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,098 posts
  • Joined 28-February 12
  • LocationHouston, TX
  • Your Association Name :GHOA, TASO


Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

Yes, I'd say that has been my experience though I don't know if it holds true everywhere.
"That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball."
- Bill Veeck

--------------
Luke 10:27

#3 MPLSMatt

MPLSMatt
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 376 posts
  • Joined 21-May 10

Posted 19 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

From my experience, a manager that is educated is almost always more reasonable as long as I (the umpire) know my stuff too (which I do).

#4 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,341 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:22 AM

Not only does education have a role, but demographic and personality as well. There are educated a$$hole coaches. Some are more prone to assholishness than others. Some are very reserved, water off a duck's back personality types. The introvert, the extrovert, the passive-agressive can all have the same PhD and act completely differently. In my experience, the educated coach tends to have better rules conception and general baseball knowledge. The un/under-educated coach tends to be more emotional. Refining is the real issue. Education acts as a base, while ignorance is more alkaline. The Ph is somewhere in the middle between education, demographic, and experience. That being said, I have had coaches with philosophy degrees act worse than a HS dropout working in a factory coach whose knowledge of the game far superceded his formal education.
2014 Game Count: 112
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#5 grayhawk

grayhawk
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,362 posts
  • Joined 28-August 10
  • LocationLaguna Niguel, CA


Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

"Educated manager" Now that's a contradiction in terms.

2014 Game Count:  High School: 43 | AAU: 0 | Pony: 0 | Little League: 2 | UCLA: 2 | Total: 47

2013 Game Count:  High School: 43 | USSSA: 7 | AAU: 30 | Pony: 11Little League: 17 | UCLA: 1Total: 109


#6 C'MON_Blue55

C'MON_Blue55
  • Inactive
  • PipPip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined 26-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Twin City Umpire Association

Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:25 PM

I have found that statement to be true.

#7 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,137 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:38 PM

I would think it would be hard to judge. As soon as they start acting like an unreasonable idiot I assume they aren't very educated. I have found that some that are very educated can be very arrogant too. So you have that.

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67


#8 Crew Chief 17

Crew Chief 17
  • Inactive
  • Pip
  • 12 posts
  • Joined 11-July 12
  • LocationJackson, MS
  • Your Association Name :MAIS

Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:13 AM

For the most part, the educated managers I've dealt with are usually pretty reasonable. However, you ocasionally get that educated manager that talks to you like you know nothing because he thinks he's smarter than you. :angry:
Call what you see...see what you call.

#9 dddunn3d

dddunn3d
  • Inactive
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Joined 01-February 11
  • LocationTampa Bay, FL

Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:29 AM

Education acts as a base, while ignorance is more alkaline.


What do you mean with this statement? I can't figure this one out.

#10 renegadewolf

renegadewolf
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 311 posts
  • Joined 02-May 12
  • LocationKitchener, Ontario
  • Your Association Name :Cambridge, Guelph Minor Basball, Royal City, Golden Horseshoe Baseball Leagues

Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:16 AM


Education acts as a base, while ignorance is more alkaline.


What do you mean with this statement? I can't figure this one out.

Especially considering a base substance is alkaline (they are the same thing), I think perhaps trout was going for acid and alkaline?

#11 mstaylor

mstaylor

    Crew Chief

  • Inactive
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,115 posts
  • Joined 27-August 08
  • LocationSalisbury,MD


Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:58 AM

Education can make difference but the difference between their baseball knowledge and presumed baseball knowledge is far more important.
Posted Image

#12 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,341 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:59 AM



Education acts as a base, while ignorance is more alkaline.


What do you mean with this statement? I can't figure this one out.

Especially considering a base substance is alkaline (they are the same thing), I think perhaps trout was going for acid and alkaline?

college chemistry was a long time ago :D lol
2014 Game Count: 112
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#13 Dragon29

Dragon29
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 786 posts
  • Joined 09-January 09
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:42 PM

. . . assholishness . . .


Word of the day!

Stuart Berg
C4UA


#14 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,341 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:39 PM

. . . assholishness . . .


Word of the day!

Good verbage, huh? :D
2014 Game Count: 112
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#15 JHSump

JHSump
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Joined 30-June 11
  • LocationBlacksburg, Virginia


Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:15 PM

Education can make difference but the difference between their baseball knowledge and presumed baseball knowledge is far more important.


Quite true. I know some coaches that are clearly well educated, but can be way wrong when it comes to baseball or baseball rules.

#16 JHSump

JHSump
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Joined 30-June 11
  • LocationBlacksburg, Virginia


Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:16 PM

Not only does education have a role, but demographic and personality as well. There are educated a$$hole coaches. Some are more prone to assholishness than others. Some are very reserved, water off a duck's back personality types. The introvert, the extrovert, the passive-agressive can all have the same PhD and act completely differently. In my experience, the educated coach tends to have better rules conception and general baseball knowledge. The un/under-educated coach tends to be more emotional. Refining is the real issue. Education acts as a base, while ignorance is more alkaline. The Ph is somewhere in the middle between education, demographic, and experience. That being said, I have had coaches with philosophy degrees act worse than a HS dropout working in a factory coach whose knowledge of the game far superceded his formal education.


Also, very true.

#17 JHSump

JHSump
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 849 posts
  • Joined 30-June 11
  • LocationBlacksburg, Virginia


Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

Lots of good comments in this thread. I guess in the end, formal education my play only a very small role in how they act, or in their baseball knowledge.

The one thing that struck me about the Davey Johnson article was his keying in on statistical analysis apparently long before that became fashionable in more recent times (as in Moneyball). Seems like it resonated with his math education. But I have no idea what his personality is like, and how he interacts with umpires.

#18 mstaylor

mstaylor

    Crew Chief

  • Inactive
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,115 posts
  • Joined 27-August 08
  • LocationSalisbury,MD


Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:44 AM

I believe Davy does pretty well with umpires, his baseball knowledge is quite good. That's why it was so funny with the pine tar in the glove dispute. His argument was quite reasoned, the Fl manger was typical rat ranting.
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users