Jump to content



Register or Sign In to remove these ads
Photo
- - - - -

Lineup SNAFU


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:25 PM

So in a Cardinals-Marlins game a few weeks ago, Mike Matheny made a double-switch and it was reported to Ozzie Guillen incorrectly by the PU. The PU is clearly heard on a field mic telling Guillen "I F'd it up Ozzie, he told me the 3 spot and I wrote down 5". Well to "fix" the situation they made the Cardinals take Allen Craig out of the lineup, because that's what Ozzie had written down. It seemed to me that since the PU had admitted that he wrote it down wrong that a change to the lineup card should have been the fix, not actually adjusting the lineup. Maybe not enough info to tell, but I know that when as an umpire I've incorrectly communicated a switch I take responsibility for communicating it wrong, we fix the lineup card/scorebook and move on.

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67



Register or Sign In to remove these ads

#2 Rich Ives

Rich Ives
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,071 posts
  • Joined 09-May 10


Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:30 AM

No different than any other blown call. Tough luck. Too late to fix it as play has resumed.

I coach. I have to consider the situation from both sides - offense and defense.


#3 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

No different than any other blown call. Tough luck. Too late to fix it as play has resumed.


But they had resumed play already. After a couple of pitches Guillen came out and said that Craig should not be in the lineup. That's when they realized that the umpire had wrote it down wrong. So they had to "fix" something. They either had to "fix" the lineup by removing Allan Craig from the game. Or "fix" the lineup card by writing it correctly.

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67


#4 MPLSMatt

MPLSMatt
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 378 posts
  • Joined 21-May 10

Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

For you guys that do ball with complex changes (not just substitutions), do you double check your lineup or even show it to the home coach when you record it? Seems like good preventative officiating to me, but I don't do much lineup card ball right now (mostly working the JV circuit).

#5 Rich Ives

Rich Ives
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,071 posts
  • Joined 09-May 10


Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:39 AM


No different than any other blown call. Tough luck. Too late to fix it as play has resumed.


But they had resumed play already. {snip]


Isn't that what I said?

I coach. I have to consider the situation from both sides - offense and defense.


#6 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:02 AM



No different than any other blown call. Tough luck. Too late to fix it as play has resumed.


But they had resumed play already. {snip]


Isn't that what I said?


But you said they couldn't fix it because play had already resumed. They did fix it. They made the Cardinals replace Craig with Tony Cruz, who hadn't played 1B all season. Why wasn't just changing the lineup card the more appropriate fix?

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67


#7 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,505 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

Because once HP writes it down and announces it, it's official. He didn't "fix" it, he made them correct THEIR lineup to match HIS lineup card. Far from a fix.
2014 Game Count: 120
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#8 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

Because once HP writes it down and announces it, it's official. He didn't "fix" it, he made them correct THEIR lineup to match HIS lineup card. Far from a fix.


Thanks. That makes sense.

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67


#9 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:18 AM

Because once HP writes it down and announces it, it's official. He didn't "fix" it, he made them correct THEIR lineup to match HIS lineup card. Far from a fix.


So by that same token if a coach tells me #23 is going in for #11, then I write down #32 instead of #23, and go tell the other coach it's #32, if that coach disputes it I have to tell the original coach to replace #23 with #32?

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67


#10 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,505 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:34 AM


Because once HP writes it down and announces it, it's official. He didn't "fix" it, he made them correct THEIR lineup to match HIS lineup card. Far from a fix.


So by that same token if a coach tells me #23 is going in for #11, then I write down #32 instead of #23, and go tell the other coach it's #32, if that coach disputes it I have to tell the original coach to replace #23 with #32?

keep in mind we're talking MLB. Before I write or announce, I confirm. As I write, I verbally confirm. After I write, I show, visually AND verbally confirming. I am 100% positive I wrote what he wanted. Then I announce. That being said, yes. I would make him adjust his lineup to match my card. Depending on the rule set.
2014 Game Count: 120
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#11 scrounge

scrounge
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,449 posts
  • Joined 20-April 11
  • LocationOhio


Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:51 AM

and while I can't say that I've always done since sometimes (perhaps incorrectly) I'm rushed, I try to confirm the name in addition to the number.

#12 Jocko

Jocko

    Resident Smart A$$

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,505 posts
  • Joined 12-May 12
  • LocationSomewhere between foul lines and fences
  • Your Association Name :GSUA, ASO


Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:54 AM

and while I can't say that I've always done since sometimes (perhaps incorrectly) I'm rushed, I try to confirm the name in addition to the number.

good point. I say the # and read the name off my card. That way HC is positive he gets the change he wants.
2014 Game Count: 120
2014 Rainouts: 22
2014 DL misses : 13

#13 umpire_scott

umpire_scott
  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined 25-June 12
  • Your Association Name :Missouri High School Athletic Association

Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

And I think Matheny caused some of the confusion because in addition to making the double switch he was moving Tyler Greene to 3rd base, which the umpire didn't need to know. And I think that Matheny said F5 when making that point and that was part of what caused the umpire to mistake 3 spot for 5 spot.

2014 Game Count:

 

Junior College - 2

High School - 9

Tournament - 56

 

Total - 67





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users