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positioning for the 9-3 putout from "A"


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#1 1dumbquestion

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

I'm in "A" B2 (1 out) hits sharply to F9, I begin to come in to pivot when I see F3 setting up for a throw so I come set in about the same place you'd set up for a typical 5-3 or 6-3 put-out. Ball beats the runner by a good half step and I ring him up. I jog back to A and notice the 3rd BC heading my way (he'd got time from PU and was walking calmly) He asked if I thought I had a good angle to get the call right, I was a little stunned and simply said "yes, I had great angle it wasn't even close" he then said "you're 100% not 99% sure right?" I said "the ball beat the runner, we're done here lets play". He smiled and said ok. My question isn't about my conversation with the coach (unless you have input) but more about how you would take a play like the 9-3. I know it's not a traditional put-out so I just got the angle I thought worked and where I could get set in-time to see it happen. Thanks for any input, 1


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#2 umpire_scott

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:10 PM

I admit I don't know if this is correct, but on that play I always keep the ball in front of me. So when the ball went in between first and second if it was hit sharply I would hold my position on the line in case that throw was going to happen. Then as the BR got to first base I would come in behind him to take my place in the infield. In some areas I've been told trailing the BR after touching 1B is a preferred mechanic versus coming in immediately and button-hooking.

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#3 kylejt

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

I'm heading toward the coaches box, probably five steps in, and three to my left. Plus, I'm reading F3's eyes all the way, and getting ready for the play, or an over throw. Glance at the catcher, to see if he's coming up the line, to angle over for that over throw. That gives me the play at first, a possible throw back by F2, and a good attack point to get inside and take the BR to second.

Always glace back at your outfielders before every pitch, to know where they're playing. That will help you determine where the next throw might be coming from and to, as the ball is hit out there.

#4 guyinaredhat

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

When this play happens, i always feel the need to move quickly and read the play as quickly as you can . When the ball is hit sharply and you know the 2nd baseman's not going to make a play i come into the infield and pivot hard on my left foot and open up to the ball and try to keep everything in front of me, when i can read the throw will be comming in I slow down and position myself to see the play and make the call. Most of the time i feel pretty good about my positioning but every so often i feel rushed.

#5 UmpJM

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

1dumbquestion,

This is one that isn't covered in ANY of the mechanics manuals, because it typically just "doesn't happen" at upper levels of play.

What I do is I bust in to a "tight" pivot point just as I would on a base hit to right with a possible throw behind the runner at 1B should he make too aggressive a turn.

You should have plenty of time to do this, it gets you out of the throwing lane, allows you to establish a good angle to the throw, and allows you to see a pulled foot or adjust to a swipe tag should one develop.

More importantly, it puts you "inside" and ahead of the runner should the play breakdown, ball gets away from F3, and the BR decides to try for 2B. If you remain "outside", you're chasing the runner if he ends up trying for 2B and have an "asses and elbows" view of any play there.

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#6 Jocko

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:49 PM

Totally agree with JM. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Bust ass INSIDE.
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#7 umpire_scott

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:10 PM

I would agree that the preferred choice would be to get to the interior. Sometimes I worry about becoming a distraction by doing this especially if the RF is charging hard. I just don't like turning my back at all to a ball when their is going to be a quick play. I would say that the best method and outcome is bust ass to the inside as Trout and JM has said. It gives you the best positioning, but I also think based on timing it has the most risk for something bad happening. But it's a low risk at that. Sometimes I think the exact nature of the play dictates what you do.

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#8 mjr_2013

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:59 PM

+1 to JM. Get yourself inside, because if you get caught behind him, and the ball is overthrown, you're a dead ump walking sprinting.

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#9 Dannytheman

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:03 PM

+2 for JM. Inside and enjoy trotting instead of running.

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it! :meditation:

 

 


#10 1dumbquestion

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

Thanks for all the quick replys. At first I thought I was fine on this but now reading how you all see it I can chalk it up as a leason learned. On the hit I didn't think there was going to be an attempted 9-3 and it wasn't until I was heading in that F3 setup so at that point I was stuck getting ready for the play. I will take the advise of checking my outfield to see how they are playing and react to a hard hit ball faster and tighter on my pivot. I can see how the unorthodox positioning caused the coach to think he could question my call. Seldom posting, always reading, Thanks agian, 1

#11 Matt

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:17 PM

Here's something else to take away from this...

Even though you didn't read the play correctly to start, you still recognized what was going to happen and got to a workable (albeit not the optimal) solution. A lot of guys would have brain freeze and either done nothing or tried to do "something" without a purpose.

#12 noumpere

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

In some areas I've been told trailing the BR after touching 1B is a preferred mechanic versus coming in immediately and button-hooking.


That works if your still faster than the players. But almost any HS or college player is going to be faster than almost any umpire. I dont want to give them a head start.

#13 Haid D' Salaami

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:09 PM

No way ever you should take this play from the coaches box..sorry.. if the ball is bobbled missed .. no you ( the BU ) have to take BR into 2nd... PU on a clean hit to the outfield is just coming up in a direction of the ball,and he aint.. or shouldnt take BR into 2nd..

BU in this play needs to come in just like a normal play.. cause this was a clean hit to the outfield, and we are taught that on a clean hit, that is not trouble we come in and pivot, and if you do your pivot right, you will be in a great position for this play..

On a side note on the handling situation with the coach.. he asked just 1 time.. I think you probably could have given him just a little bit more room to talk... he asked once, you told him you were correct, and then he needed to go.. sometimes we can just talk a sec.. ( not too long ) but a sec...IMHO

#14 Jocko

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:17 PM

I agree. If you move into foul ground, you've basically hamstrung HP into picking up the BR all the way around just as if you'd gone out on a trouble ball. Only he's not prepared and will be a step or two off IF he sees you hung him out. Don't do that.
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#15 BigSimonia

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:53 PM

Totally agree with JM. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Bust ass INSIDE.


+1

#16 Haid D' Salaami

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

I'm heading toward the coaches box, probably five steps in, and three to my left. Plus, I'm reading F3's eyes all the way, and getting ready for the play, or an over throw. Glance at the catcher, to see if he's coming up the line, to angle over for that over throw. That gives me the play at first, a possible throw back by F2, and a good attack point to get inside and take the BR to second.

Always glace back at your outfielders before every pitch, to know where they're playing. That will help you determine where the next throw might be coming from and to, as the ball is hit out there.


The other thing i was thinking.. Is if your going to the coaches box to take this play, you didn't read the ball, you saw a clean hit, but stood still...

#17 umpire_scott

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:29 PM


I'm heading toward the coaches box, probably five steps in, and three to my left. Plus, I'm reading F3's eyes all the way, and getting ready for the play, or an over throw. Glance at the catcher, to see if he's coming up the line, to angle over for that over throw. That gives me the play at first, a possible throw back by F2, and a good attack point to get inside and take the BR to second.

Always glace back at your outfielders before every pitch, to know where they're playing. That will help you determine where the next throw might be coming from and to, as the ball is hit out there.


The other thing i was thinking.. Is if your going to the coaches box to take this play, you didn't read the ball, you saw a clean hit, but stood still...


There have been times on that play where the second baseman is diving in an effort to make the play. If he succeeds and I'm hightailing it to the inside I may miss the throw, or worse yet, be in the way of it. It's not always about not reading the play. Sometimes the circumstances dictate your actions. And once you hesitate (which in some cases is necessary), you may not have time to get to the inside before F9 fields and throws.

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#18 D62 blue

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:12 AM

I'm in "A" B2 (1 out) hits sharply to F9, I begin to come in to pivot when I see F3 setting up for a throw so I come set in about the same place you'd set up for a typical 5-3 or 6-3 put-out. Ball beats the runner by a good half step and I ring him up. I jog back to A and notice the 3rd BC heading my way (he'd got time from PU and was walking calmly) He asked if I thought I had a good angle to get the call right, I was a little stunned and simply said "yes, I had great angle it wasn't even close" he then said "you're 100% not 99% sure right?" I said "the ball beat the runner, we're done here lets play". He smiled and said ok. My question isn't about my conversation with the coach (unless you have input) but more about how you would take a play like the 9-3. I know it's not a traditional put-out so I just got the angle I thought worked and where I could get set in-time to see it happen. Thanks for any input, 1


If F9 is shallow , or has a bazooka of an arm , then you have "pressure" , you wont be able to pivot fast enough , you're back will be to the play . You must be able to read this correctly , and stay in foul territory (or right on the line) for the call . That is the mechanic we have been taught in my area , from LL all the way to HS games . If F9 is deep enough then i agree pivot and make the call . The "pressure" mechanic also is utilized with F4 coming right at you (toward the line) , stay in foul make the call . I agree that if there is an overthrow by F9 , it is going to be a foot race to 2nd .
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#19 Matt

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:48 AM

It's not always about not reading the play. Sometimes the circumstances dictate your actions.


Umm...that would be "reading the play."

#20 mstaylor

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

It is possible for the F9 to be shallow enough that you will take it two steps fair or even from foul. If you have to go foul, your PU should read that and call you off going to second. If you can get to the inside, get to the inside.
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