31 replies to this topic

[1dumbquestion]

I didn't want to change the OP in the pro section to a HS quesiton but if you have the same play, R1 sliding beyond the bag at second and altering a play on the BR at first do you get 2 outs on the FPSR even though R1 was safe on the slide. I would think so as the FPSR is a penalizing rule. What do you guys think? Thanks, 1

[Jocko]

If I have a blatant INT, I'll call it. IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot. I'm pretty liberal on how they slide, so a LEGAL slide can almost never cause INT. I've called INT DP maybe 4 times in my career.

[Jocko]

I recall seeing your OP sitch in the case book.

[Matt]

IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.

No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

[Matt]

I didn't want to change the OP in the pro section to a HS quesiton but if you have the same play, R1 sliding beyond the bag at second and altering a play on the BR at first do you get 2 outs on the FPSR even though R1 was safe on the slide. I would think so as the FPSR is a penalizing rule. What do you guys think? Thanks, 1

There is nothing to think about. By rule, both the offending runner and BR are out.

[Jocko]

I told you my legal slide interp was liberal. I give them some leeway and let em play it out

[Matt]

I told you my legal slide interp was liberal. I give them some leeway and let em play it out

There's no interpretation. What you are doing is making your own rules up. FED defines a legal slide, and it's not what you are calling.

[Jocko]

Judgement...... Thy name is "Umpire"

[Jocko]

IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.

No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

I'm readine Fed 2-32-1 & 2 a-f and I find no wording similar to this. Please give me the reference you are using. Referring to the "entire body in the width of the bag"

Rule 2-32-1-f "the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases."

[Matt]

IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.

No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

I'm readine Fed 2-32-1 & 2 a-f and I find no wording similar to this. Please give me the reference you are using.

Rule 2-32-1-f "the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases."

Exactly. Also look at 8-4-2b. "Direct line" means exactly that--a runner has to slide on the imaginary line between the bases. Sliding to either side is not sliding in direct line. The only absolution for that is if the slide is away from the fielder. See 2.32.2a and b.

[Jocko]

If you draw a straight line from the inside corner of 1b to the outside corner of 2b, wouldn't that constitute a direct line? Don't get me wrong. I give benefit of doubt to defense if there's a question, I just don't award DP easily. It all boils down to if in the BU judgement there was a possibility of a DP. Lots of things to consider.

[Jocko]

Where is the entire body width part?

[Matt]

It all boils down to if in the BU judgement there was a possibility of a DP.

Again, you are incorrect. An FPSR violation is always two out, whether a DP is possible or not.

[Jocko]

Again, IF BU judges there was a violation. If no violation, no DP.

[Matt]

Again, IF BU judges there was a violation. If no violation, no DP.

No ######, Sherlock. You just stated that the possibility of a DP goes into the decision. It doesn't.

[carolinablue]

I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

[Jocko]

Ok, Sherlock.... I'm still waiting for the entire body width reference. You sure are combative over a friendly baseball rules conversation. Hate to see how you act on the field.

[Jocko]

I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

I'm sure it was a righteous call. I've called it a few times. Mostly it's illegal slide for intentionally trying to take out F6. Ima bust em for that. I'm not gonna grant a dp just because R1 slid to the corner of the bag instead of the middle. That's all I was saying.

[Matt]

Ok, Sherlock.... I'm still waiting for the entire body width reference. You sure are combative over a friendly baseball rules conversation. Hate to see how you act on the field.

I'm combative when you keep insisting on incorrect umpiring, and I point it out? Not to mention, you claim to mean one thing when saying another? That's called "dishonesty."

And don't start with how I must be on the field. My HS season isn't over, if you catch my drift.

As for your body-width reference, check your periodic handouts. It is in there, and is in at least one a year. There's even a little shaded diagram. This isn't rocket science--if any part of the body goes to either side of the bag, that is outside a direct line between bases, since there is no line from base to base outside of the edges.

[Matt]

I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

I'm sure it was a righteous call. I've called it a few times. Mostly it's illegal slide for intentionally trying to take out F6. Ima bust em for that. I'm not gonna grant a dp just because R1 slid to the corner of the bag instead of the middle. That's all I was saying.

Go read 8-4-2b Penalty. You are required to get 2 on an illegal slide on a force play.