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FED version of "what happens" from Pro section


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#1 1dumbquestion

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

I didn't want to change the OP in the pro section to a HS quesiton but if you have the same play, R1 sliding beyond the bag at second and altering a play on the BR at first do you get 2 outs on the FPSR even though R1 was safe on the slide. I would think so as the FPSR is a penalizing rule. What do you guys think? Thanks, 1


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#2 Jocko

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:05 PM

If I have a blatant INT, I'll call it. IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot. I'm pretty liberal on how they slide, so a LEGAL slide can almost never cause INT. I've called INT DP maybe 4 times in my career.
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#3 Jocko

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

I recall seeing your OP sitch in the case book.
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#4 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:53 AM

IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.


No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

#5 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:53 AM

I didn't want to change the OP in the pro section to a HS quesiton but if you have the same play, R1 sliding beyond the bag at second and altering a play on the BR at first do you get 2 outs on the FPSR even though R1 was safe on the slide. I would think so as the FPSR is a penalizing rule. What do you guys think? Thanks, 1


There is nothing to think about. By rule, both the offending runner and BR are out.

#6 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:55 AM

I told you my legal slide interp was liberal. I give them some leeway and let em play it out
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#7 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:03 AM

I told you my legal slide interp was liberal. I give them some leeway and let em play it out


There's no interpretation. What you are doing is making your own rules up. FED defines a legal slide, and it's not what you are calling.

#8 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:10 AM

Judgement...... Thy name is "Umpire"
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#9 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:14 AM


IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.


No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

I'm readine Fed 2-32-1 & 2 a-f and I find no wording similar to this. Please give me the reference you are using. Referring to the "entire body in the width of the bag"

Rule 2-32-1-f "the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases."
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#10 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:20 AM



IMO, a legal slide means R1 can reach the bag with hand or foot.


No. In FED (and NCAA,) a slide on a force has to have the entire body in the width of the bag or the slide has to be away from the fielder.

I'm readine Fed 2-32-1 & 2 a-f and I find no wording similar to this. Please give me the reference you are using.

Rule 2-32-1-f "the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases."


Exactly. Also look at 8-4-2b. "Direct line" means exactly that--a runner has to slide on the imaginary line between the bases. Sliding to either side is not sliding in direct line. The only absolution for that is if the slide is away from the fielder. See 2.32.2a and b.

#11 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:27 AM

If you draw a straight line from the inside corner of 1b to the outside corner of 2b, wouldn't that constitute a direct line? Don't get me wrong. I give benefit of doubt to defense if there's a question, I just don't award DP easily. It all boils down to if in the BU judgement there was a possibility of a DP. Lots of things to consider.
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#12 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:30 AM

Where is the entire body width part?
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#13 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:30 AM

It all boils down to if in the BU judgement there was a possibility of a DP.


Again, you are incorrect. An FPSR violation is always two out, whether a DP is possible or not.

#14 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:32 AM

Again, IF BU judges there was a violation. If no violation, no DP.
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#15 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:34 AM

Again, IF BU judges there was a violation. If no violation, no DP.


No SH*#, Sherlock. You just stated that the possibility of a DP goes into the decision. It doesn't.

#16 carolinablue

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:39 AM

I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

 Whether you think you can, or you think you can't-you're right. ~Henry Ford


#17 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:40 AM

Ok, Sherlock.... I'm still waiting for the entire body width reference. You sure are combative over a friendly baseball rules conversation. Hate to see how you act on the field. :fuel:
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#18 Jocko

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

I'm sure it was a righteous call. I've called it a few times. Mostly it's illegal slide for intentionally trying to take out F6. Ima bust em for that. I'm not gonna grant a dp just because R1 slid to the corner of the bag instead of the middle. That's all I was saying.
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#19 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:49 AM

Ok, Sherlock.... I'm still waiting for the entire body width reference. You sure are combative over a friendly baseball rules conversation. Hate to see how you act on the field. :fuel:


I'm combative when you keep insisting on incorrect umpiring, and I point it out? Not to mention, you claim to mean one thing when saying another? That's called "dishonesty."

And don't start with how I must be on the field. My HS season isn't over, if you catch my drift.

As for your body-width reference, check your periodic handouts. It is in there, and is in at least one a year. There's even a little shaded diagram. This isn't rocket science--if any part of the body goes to either side of the bag, that is outside a direct line between bases, since there is no line from base to base outside of the edges.

#20 Matt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:50 AM


I called it once when the defense would not have got any outs. F4 caught ball beside bag but had not touched, R1 took him out. I called R1 and BR out. If he had just slid into the base noone would have been out.

I'm sure it was a righteous call. I've called it a few times. Mostly it's illegal slide for intentionally trying to take out F6. Ima bust em for that. I'm not gonna grant a dp just because R1 slid to the corner of the bag instead of the middle. That's all I was saying.


Go read 8-4-2b Penalty. You are required to get 2 on an illegal slide on a force play.




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