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3 man check swing appeals


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#1 jjskitours

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

I understand that CCA has dictated that the PU go to the "wing man" on all check swing appeals and never to the U1 or U3 positioned at B or C.
Assuming this is correct, do you agree with this mechanic? Why the change? Can U1 from A on LH batter really see check swing better than U3
in the B or C position?


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#2 zm1283

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:52 PM

I like it better than going to the guy in the middle.

#3 dumbdumb

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:32 PM

I understand that CCA has dictated that the PU go to the "wing man" on all check swing appeals and never to the U1 or U3 positioned at B or C.
Assuming this is correct, do you agree with this mechanic? Why the change? Can U1 from A on LH batter really see check swing better than U3
in the B or C position?


It's the same look you get in a 2 man if the first batter of the game is left handed and some lineups may have 4 or 5 left handed hitters, so at least it's consistent, as far as the look goes.

Infield umpire from B or C, has the same look as the plate umpire (just from the opposite side of the catcher) who has just asked for help, assuming the plate umpire was not blocked out by the catcher in any way.

Now I didn't answer your question with that one, but I would imagine there have been some studies done on this issue since the pros also use this system. Maybe the studies were done by the pros to necessitate the change and the CCA went with pro studies or maybe the CCA did their own studies.

#4 noumpere

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:03 AM

Remember that the college rule is that its a swing if the bat passes the front hip so the powers that be decided the wing guy had a better look at that then the middle guy did.

#5 alex7

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:01 AM

The reason I was given was that this mechanic also helps in steal situations. R1 steals 2nd, BR check swings. Umpire inside follows throw down to 2nd base, which then makes it hard to sell a check-swing call after you call out/safe on R1.

Our association isn't using it unless PU reads steal, or we're working a state championship game with important eyes on us.

#6 mfd110

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:16 AM

I agree and disagree with the check swing, I have been yelled at from the crowd on a couple occasions this year that I was going to the wrong guy on the check swing!!! They yelled at me to go back to school and that I had to go to the umpire in the middle!!! LOL!!!

#7 johnnyg08

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

unless PU reads steal


I know it's late, but help me understand your comment above...
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#8 UMP45

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:42 AM

zm1283 why don't you like going to your partner when he is in the middle? :eek:

#9 zm1283

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:25 PM

zm1283 why don't you like going to your partner when he is in the middle? :eek:


I think it is easier for the umpire on the line, no matter which line it is, to judge check swings accurately.

I'm of the opinion that standing in the coaches box behind the batter (1B box for a LH batter for example) is a great place to see a check swing. Why wouldn't it be almost as good standing on the 1B line in the A position?

I don't think the old way of going to the guy in the middle is wrong or bad, I just think that having a swing come directly at you is a lot tougher than seeing it from the side of the batter, whether it is in front of or behind him.

Oh, and by the way, back earlier in the spring I may have posted on one of the mechanics threads that I don't like this mechanic. I have changed my tune.

#10 Tyennie

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:21 AM

I generally tell the middle infielders (during a lull in the activity and somewhat facetiously) that the bat will have to hit me in the face before i call a check swing a strike when i am working inside with a two man crew. :)
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#11 UmpTTS43

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:30 PM

As stated before, the CCA mechanic is in reponse to the NCAA's definition of a half swing and can be better determined from the wing. In pro ball, the definition of a half swing is different, relies solely on intent rather than positioning of the bat in relation to the batter. In pro ball, you continue to go to the open side of the batter.

#12 Jocko

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:49 PM

I never go to my partner when he's in the working area on check swing appeals. If he's home, ok, but once he goes to work, forget it.
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#13 zm1283

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:13 PM

I never go to my partner when he's in the working area on check swing appeals. If he's home, ok, but once he goes to work, forget it.


This is outdated. Go to your partner when requested. At worst you get another strike.

#14 JaxRolo

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:28 AM


I never go to my partner when he's in the working area on check swing appeals. If he's home, ok, but once he goes to work, forget it.


This is outdated. Go to your partner when requested. At worst you get another strike.


Agree. What does it hurt to ask.

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#15 Jocko

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:52 AM

Nope. Not going to the man in the middle. And I don't want him coming to me. Outdated? Ummmmm...... Ok.
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#16 UmpTTS43

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:44 AM

Nope. Not going to the man in the middle. And I don't want him coming to me. Outdated? Ummmmm...... Ok.


When working under NCAA or OBR, you MUST go to your partner when appealed. It is the rule. Under FED you are not required but not doing so puts you in a bad light.

#17 dumbdumb

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:21 PM


Nope. Not going to the man in the middle. And I don't want him coming to me. Outdated? Ummmmm...... Ok.


When working under NCAA or OBR, you MUST go to your partner when appealed. It is the rule. Under FED you are not required but not doing so puts you in a bad light.


Agreed.

However in some areas there could be plate umpires who are getting a lot of crap from coaches on their strike zone, or just have one of those Earl Weaver hotshots, to hide behind going to their partner even when the batter practically wraps the bat around his body, to deflect the heat to his/her partner. Then the partner gets the heat from the coach if the coach doesn't agree. And of course if the partner takes care of business with the coach like they should, the partner gets the EJ and now the heat is taken off the PU.

Not saying this is happening, but it could be. If coach keeps chattering about the call where the BU could not hear but the PU can hear, the PU should step up and take care of business for his partner IMHO.

#18 mstaylor

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 02:52 PM

If you are using CCA three man mechanics then certainly go to the wing. If you are using anything else or two man go to the guy in the middle when it requires it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to the middle guy. If he has it, he calls it, if he isn't sure, he safes it. There is nothing secret about it.
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#19 Jocko

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:20 PM

Everything I call is NFHS rules (right now). I don't go to the middle. That's how I personally do it. Not trying to convince anyone or explain. I got it most of you give the appeal. I don't, and won't. My opinion.
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#20 zm1283

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:44 AM

Everything I call is NFHS rules (right now). I don't go to the middle. That's how I personally do it. Not trying to convince anyone or explain. I got it most of you give the appeal. I don't, and won't. My opinion.


It's not really an opinion when it's the completely wrong way to do it. Why is it good enough for professional and college umpires (In the past) but not good enough of a mechanic for you?




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