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3rd to 1st move


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#1 carolinablue

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:29 PM

Hi all, I just wanted to verify something with everyone. I read play 6.1.5 in the NFS casebook. It is describing a RHP pitcher doing a 3rd to 1st move where he disengages after his throw to 3B and then throws to 1B. Legal. It then goes on to explain that if he does not disengage it would be a balk. I know this is true for OBR but I thought I read a thread on here awhile ago where everyone was saying in FED it was a legal move. I know it would be difficult for a RHP to step and feint to 3rd and without disengaging turn and step and throw to 1B but I did see it once in a FED game and did not call a balk. So I need some help on this one. Thanks.

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#2 Richvee

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:55 AM

FED Case book
6.2.4 SITUATION C
With R1 on third and R2 on first, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base.

RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk.

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#3 Richvee

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:07 AM

6-1-5 is about F1 as a pitcher or an infielder when throwing to an occupied base. Nothing called a balk in the ruling. Just a one base award if the pitcher throws wild into DBT and didn't disengage.


6.1.5 SITUATION

With R1 on third base and R2 on first base, F1 steps and feints to third and then steps and throws to first attempting to pick off R2. The throw goes into dead-ball territory. The offensive team's coach wants a balk to be called because the pitcher never threw the ball toward third.

RULING: When the pitcher stepped off the pitching plate in his feint to third, he became an infielder. Hence, when his throw goes into dead-ball territory, all runners are awarded two bases. R1 gets home and R2 gets third. Had F1 stayed on the pitching plate during his feint to third and his throw to first, all runners would be awarded one base. R1 would get home and R2 would get second. This would not be a balk as F1 made a legal feint and a legal pickoff attempt with no prior motion to pitch.

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#4 carolinablue

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:17 AM

Somehow I missed the part that said the throw went into dead ball territory and without that info I had to assume it meant a balk with the one base award. I was reading it at my sons basketball practice so I was a bit distracted. Thanks, that clears it up for me.

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#5 zm1283

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:45 AM

FED Case book
6.2.4 SITUATION C
With R1 on third and R2 on first, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base.
RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk.


Wait, wasn't FED the only code in which you DON'T have to disengage before you throw to first? I thought under NCAA/OBR you have to disengage, and under FED you don't? Did this change or is this the first time they have clarified it?

#6 mstaylor

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:33 AM

It is the only one but it has been this way for years.
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#7 zm1283

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:05 AM

It is the only one but it has been this way for years.


Been what way for years? I'm confused now.

#8 carolinablue

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:28 AM


It is the only one but it has been this way for years.


Been what way for years? I'm confused now.


It's not a balk in FED but is in all other codes.

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#9 zm1283

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:42 AM

Guys, nevermind. I read that case play wrong that I quoted. I'm an idiot.

#10 JaxRolo

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:27 AM

Guys, nevermind. I read that case play wrong that I quoted. I'm an idiot.


That's what I keep hearing!!!! j/k :smachhead:

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#11 mmiller32

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:35 AM

Guys, nevermind. I read that case play wrong that I quoted. I'm an idiot.


Ha! Kinda glad you read it wrong becuase I was able to rehash the ruling

#12 cbiesecker

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:45 PM

I was reading it at my sons basketball practice so I was a bit distracted.


I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who reads baseball rule books at basketball practice. Though do you get strange looks from the other parents too?

#13 mstaylor

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

I read mine at the local drinking establishment, even though I generally just drink coffee. It does draw some interesting looks.
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#14 carolinablue

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:52 PM


I was reading it at my sons basketball practice so I was a bit distracted.


I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who reads baseball rule books at basketball practice. Though do you get strange looks from the other parents too?


Absolutely. But not as much as when I start practicing my mechanics, LOL.

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#15 Richvee

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:47 AM



It is the only one but it has been this way for years.


Been what way for years? I'm confused now.


It's not a balk in FED but is in all other codes.


Just crazy..I'm not sure about NCAA, but is FED is the only place you can't step and throw to a base from the windup position?

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#16 zm1283

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:59 AM




It is the only one but it has been this way for years.


Been what way for years? I'm confused now.


It's not a balk in FED but is in all other codes.


Just crazy..I'm not sure about NCAA, but is FED is the only place you can't step and throw to a base from the windup position?


Yes, and it's ridiculous. Just make FED like NCAA/OBR and make it easier on everyone. I understand the safety modifications, but why do base awards, obstruction, etc have to be different?

#17 mstaylor

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:47 AM

OK, time for Mike's FED rule explanation. FED makes rule differences for four reasons, under the guise of the field being an extension of the classroom.
1. Safety
2. Sportmanship
3. Participation
4. LCD This is the one that gets everybody. Sometimes they make rules to simplify enforcement, making it easier for umpires, or to make understanding by coaches easier. Sometimes it is some inexplicable. Luckily the guy that pushed the dumber stuff is gone so little by little they are getting rid of these oddities. Some that need to go are setting with no runners, not being able to return to fix a baserunning error after the ball is dead and not being able to pick from the wind-up.
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#18 zm1283

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:28 AM

OK, time for Mike's FED rule explanation. FED makes rule differences for four reasons, under the guise of the field being an extension of the classroom.
1. Safety
2. Sportmanship
3. Participation
4. LCD This is the one that gets everybody. Sometimes they make rules to simplify enforcement, making it easier for umpires, or to make understanding by coaches easier. Sometimes it is some inexplicable. Luckily the guy that pushed the dumber stuff is gone so little by little they are getting rid of these oddities. Some that need to go are setting with no runners, not being able to return to fix a baserunning error after the ball is dead and not being able to pick from the wind-up.


I know, I know....I have heard this before. I just wanted to go on a little rant. I don't have a problem with the first three.

#19 Richvee

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:49 PM

Here's another one I was wondering if anyone strictly enforces. By strict interpretation, in the set position, FED wants F1's entire pivot foot in front of the rubber.

Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire non-pivot foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher's plate and with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher's plate.

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#20 grayhawk

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

Here's another one I was wondering if anyone strictly enforces. By strict interpretation, in the set position, FED wants F1's entire pivot foot in front of the rubber.

Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire non-pivot foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher's plate and with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher's plate.


Not sure what you mean Rich. The pivot foot can be in front of, or on TOP of the rubber. Where it can't be is outside the left and right edges of the rubber. (Maybe that's what you meant?). In that case, I prefer a nice, dirty pitcher's plate so that it's hard to see.

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