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Red Flag - Base Indicator?


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#1 mjr_2013

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:37 PM

I got an email from one of my UIC's that said the league would like us to purchase one of the Red Base Runner Violation Flags for the infamous rule 7.13... In past years, they've told us a DDB signal, and verbal "He left early" call would do, but apparently some managers wouldn't see this or hear it and it caused problems. :rolleyes:

I myself didn't even make one 7.13 call last year. They are pretty smart kids. I only came close once, where a kid took a three step leadoff prior to the pitch. Luckily for him, the next couple pitches were taken, and his coach noticed and told him to get back on the base.

Does anyone know the proper mechanic for these thingy-majig's? I'd prefer not to look like a dumb*** throwing an NFL challange flag onto a baseball diamond...

So, I guess I have four questions.

A) Where do I toss it in B and C? Keep in mind this is 60 ft. LL, so I'll be on the outside
B) How do I toss it? Overhand? Underhand? Do I make it obvious?
C) How do I make the call? Do I give a verbal call as well?
D) How do I toss it without looking like the dumbest person on the field?

TIA

Currently in my 6th season...

Current Level: From Football to Fall Ball and everything in between
2014 Games: 108
Career Games: 305
Career Championship Games: 13 (6 League; 7 Tourney)
Career Ejections: 8 (5 coach; 3 player)



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#2 Rich Ives

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:47 PM

I got an email from one of my UIC's that said the league would like us to purchase one of the Red Base Runner Violation Flags for the infamous rule 7.13... In past years, they've told us a DDB signal, and verbal "He left early" call would do, but apparently some managers wouldn't see this or hear it and it caused problems. :rolleyes:

I myself didn't even make one 7.13 call last year. They are pretty smart kids. I only came close once, where a kid took a three step leadoff prior to the pitch. Luckily for him, the next couple pitches were taken, and his coach noticed and told him to get back on the base.

Does anyone know the proper mechanic for these thingy-majig's? I'd prefer not to look like a dumb*** throwing an NFL challange flag onto a baseball diamond...

So, I guess I have four questions.

A) Where do I toss it in B and C? Keep in mind this is 60 ft. LL, so I'll be on the outside
B) How do I toss it? Overhand? Underhand? Do I make it obvious?
C) How do I make the call? Do I give a verbal call as well?
D) How do I toss it without looking like the dumbest person on the field?

TIA


Just drop it. The ball remains in play so don't do anything that would stop play. Sort out the penalty after it's over.

Drop it as soon as you see the violation so people won't think it was an afterthought.

They don't have to be red.

Buy some heavy-duty cloth and make one (or several for the league). Might as well make it red as "everyone" thinks it has to be red.

I coach. I have to consider the situation from both sides - offense and defense.


#3 sdix00

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:06 PM

These flags are one of Little League's most awesomest ideas ever.

So awesome that umpires out here "lose" theirs after week one.

Sigh

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#4 mjr_2013

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:34 PM

Thanks Rich. That should spare me from at least some of the ridicule.

And I sure hope I don't lose mine! That would be AWFUL! :smachhead:

Currently in my 6th season...

Current Level: From Football to Fall Ball and everything in between
2014 Games: 108
Career Games: 305
Career Championship Games: 13 (6 League; 7 Tourney)
Career Ejections: 8 (5 coach; 3 player)


#5 mstaylor

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

Rich was completely in my head. It is a simple matter of dropping it. Drop it everytime the kid takes an illegal lead or leaves early. It's only a violation that has to be announced when he actually advances safely. I have used them and I have done it without, just remember you aren't throwing a flag in football, just drop it and make the call. What I do is pull it when they are off the bag, drop it when they break.
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#6 kylejt

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:35 AM

DON'T have it sticking out of your pocket, as it looks horrible.

7.13 usually occurs when a batter squares to bunt. The runners sees that, and sometimes heads to the races.

Drop the flag to the side of you that the runner originated from. That might come in handy later.

You might not drop one for a month, or might drop it five pitches in a row. $#!+ happenes, but don't jinx yourself by saying it won't.

For those LL umpires that don't carry one, fellas, it's right in the book, and says "shall". Some argue it's protestable if you call it, and don't drop a flag. It's a requirement, guys.

If you do District post season games, you can tell the leagues where it isn't enforced. And those are the same leagues that go two and out. Poor umpiring is usually a reflection of the league as a whole. That's just an observation from an old guy.

When calling 7.13, you're looking for the runner gaining some sort of advantage, not just some kid with a nervous twitch. (By the book vs. with the book)

Those damn red ones from Honig's cost around $10 delivered, and have a tendancy to go home in the pockets of my Junior umpires. Now they get red shop rags with a heavy, metal nut knotted into one end. Cheap and effective.

For the call, you need to wait for all the action to stop, and ball is back at the pitcher. Then you call "TIME!", and state "The runner at (insert base location here) left early", and impose one of the many interesting penalties. Since rule 7.13 is probably the most complicated one in the book, enjoy the fun. My personal favorite is the bases loaded triple, where the BR gets gready and is thrown out at the plate.

#7 mstaylor

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:25 PM

Wait until you get a bases loaded D3K with two outs. The new poof play.
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#8 mjr_2013

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

For the call, you need to wait for all the action to stop, and ball is back at the pitcher. Then you call "TIME!", and state "The runner at (insert base location here) left early", and impose one of the many interesting penalties. Since rule 7.13 is probably the mose complicated one in the book, enjoy the fun. My personal favorite is the bases loaded triple, where the BR gets gready and is thrown out at the plate.


Thank you! I find 7.13 to be worded complexly and it is hard to follow, but once you understand it with examples it is a piece of cake.

"The batter gets whatever he hit, and every runner possible gets put back to the closest possible base of their origin"... Bingo Bango.

Imagine the situation: HT down by 3 in the bottom of the 7th of the Championship game, and 2 outs. Runner on 3rd takes two steps off the base prior to the pitch... Batter hits a monster shot off the fence. R3 scores, R2 scores, R1 scores to tie it up. Batter-Runner pushes it for the win. Gets nailed out at the plate, and they think its headed to extras, but... "Time! Runner on 3rd left early! You back to 1st! You back to 2nd! You back to 3rd! That's Game!"

YIKES!

Now, say that the batter hits a triple or a home run, so that the rule doesn't have to be enforced... Do you still make a "Time!" call and ackowledge that nothing happens, or do you just go along like nothing happend and pick up your flag, moving to C or A?

Currently in my 6th season...

Current Level: From Football to Fall Ball and everything in between
2014 Games: 108
Career Games: 305
Career Championship Games: 13 (6 League; 7 Tourney)
Career Ejections: 8 (5 coach; 3 player)


#9 mstaylor

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:48 PM

If there is no enforcement just pick it up and go on your way.
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#10 mjr_2013

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

Thanks!

Currently in my 6th season...

Current Level: From Football to Fall Ball and everything in between
2014 Games: 108
Career Games: 305
Career Championship Games: 13 (6 League; 7 Tourney)
Career Ejections: 8 (5 coach; 3 player)





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