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List of Causes for Automatic Ejection


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#1 Kevin Finnerty

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:06 PM

I am compiling a list of player and coach violations that must result in automatic ejection. The list is for inclusion in a men's league managers' orientation manual. I am also interested in your input on violations that must result in a warning and possible ejection.

Please offer any simple violation, story or situation that you have.

Thank you.

“Let’s face it: Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can’t resist.”

̶ Bob Uecker



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#2 mstaylor

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:38 PM

1. Line drawing or any other actions designed to show up the PU.
2. Arguing check swings.
3. Fighting.
4. Certain language at certain levels.
5. Any language directed at the umpire.
6. Throwing at batters. Could be auto or W&E.
Warn and Eject situations are too numerous and varied.
I had a batter get called out on a checked swing appeal. I was the BU and I rang the swing. You could see he wanted to argue but knew he would get dumped for it. He instead laid his bat and helmet on the plate and walked away. The PU tossed him before he cleared the batter's box.
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#3 kylejt

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:32 PM

Removing ones belt. (or my belt, for that matter)

"You..........."

Flailing gear, coolers, or bat boys on the field.

The mere attempt of picking up a base.

Bringing a dictionary, eye chart, white cane or any bottle of 80 proof (without an extra glass) on the field.

".........you......."

Questioning my integrity, without any written proof.

#4 KLAH316

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)

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2014 Ejections: 4  (2 - MC)
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#5 johnnyg08

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:43 PM

I read this information thought it was pretty good and so I will share it below.

*inciting, or attempting to incite, spectators by word, sign, or demonstration
*using language that refers personally and negatively upon any umpire, or making intentional contact with an umpire
*Calling "time" or employing any other word or phrases, or commit any act while the ball is live, for the purpose of making the pitcher balk
*standing in a position in the batter's line of vision for the deliberate and unsportsmanlike intent of distracting the batter
*continuing to argue judgment decisions after being warned by the umpires to cease
*make intentional contact with any umpire
*leaving their position, after being warned, for the purpose of arguing balls and strikes or check swings
*leaving their position for the purpose of participating in, or instigating a fight with a member from the opposing team
*after acknowledging the comments, responding when needed, and warning about further comments, they continue to argue

*Personal language:

*You are, you're...followed by anything

*directing violent or vulgar, personal language at the umpire

*comments about another member of your crew


Gesture

*taking hat off, and does not put it back on head after warning

*inciting the crowd

*throwing arms up in the air, and does not stop after warning

*kicking dirt


Intentional Contact

Throwing equipment in violent disapproval of an umpire's decision, where a league equipment violation policy does not take precedence

Following any warning that continuing the action will result in an ejection, and the action continues

NOTE: There may be instances where an umpire should ignore initial comments by team members, or where a response or warning is necessary immediately. The list is not required to be followed in all instances and in the order noted. Each situation is different, and should be handled differently depending on the circumstances surrounding the situation and the personalities involved.

-The above information is taken from the Wendelstedt Umpire School Rules and Interpretations Manual page 62 and 65
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#6 johnnyg08

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:44 PM

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)


Put up the stop sign, ask the head coach in a calm voice to relax and talk to me or the conversation is over. Anybody but the head coach charges and it's an automatic dump in most cases. If coach does not relax and continues to act like an idiot, dump him and walk away, he just ejected himself.

Edited by johnnyg08, 10 December 2011 - 09:47 PM.

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#7 kylejt

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:03 AM

*taking hat off, and does not put it back on head after warning



I gotta tell ya, that's a new one.

"Listen, Skip, you better put your lid back on. This is your warning"

I can't imagine ever saying that to a grown man.

And I always thought removing ones chapeau was sign of respect, I mean, we all do it after the final putt on the 18th, before shaking hands, right?

#8 ump_24

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:03 AM

What is everyones thoughts on a Coach running out on to the field (not calling time first) to argue a call putout at a base?? Keep in mind, there was another baserunner on at the time.

(I was not working the game, I was watching my sons USSSA Tournament when this happened....)


Please don't be "that guy" who goes, 'coach I'm only going to talk to you if you call time first.' Just do it yourself. If you need to place runners, disadvantage his team.

Fin, I'm gonna tailor this to men's league for you. Everyone else: do not treat these as applying equally to all baseball. They vary according to level, league, etc

Universal Automatics:
- challenges to the integrity of an umpire (IE "you're a homer or that run's on you")
- negative and derogatory personal comments directed at an umpire or crewmate(s)
- racial slurs, towards fans, opposition players, or umpires
- failure to comply with an umpire's request or cease behaviour following a warning
- negative reference to a play occurring previously in the game or previously in the season (or even one's career if someone is going to be that much of a jerk) long after the fact. Included in this is "counting calls" (IE "that's two now, blue!").

Bench Behaviour:
Automatics
- consumption of alcohol (and use of tobacco if forbidden) during the game
- throwing of equipment (including but not limited to bats, gloves, balls - apparently Kyle deals with people who chuck bat boys at you, lol - onto the field in protest of an umpire's decision
- leaving the dugout or bench (even by just one step) by anyone to argue balls or strikes - including check swings (why do the morons not realize this counts too)
- leaving the dugout or bench by someone who is not manager or acting manager for the purpose of challenging an umpire

Warnings
- bench jockeying
- excessive throwing of equipment that ends up onto the field that is not thrown in protest of an umpire's decision (IE guy flies out, smashes helmet against the fence, helmet rebounds onto playing field)
- attempts to incite opposition players

Ignore (don't include this in the list - more for posters here)
- personal temper tantrums not directed at umpires
- "oh"s, "come on"s, "that was right there"s, etc - for the most part

Field Behaviour
Automatics
- making intentional contact with an umpire during an argument
- leaving a position to argue balls and strikes
- any player or coach who is not the manager or acting manager leaving their position to vehemently argue an umpire's decision (this usually comes after a warning but not always)
- malicious contact
- throwing of equipment in protest or appearing to be in protest of a call (this is an automatic because we have no fine option like MLB. In professional ball, if the offence is deemed non-flagrant, umpires have the option of fining the player, which doubles as a warning, first).
- any demonstration, action, or gesture intended to either / or 'show up' the umpire, incite teammates, and incite the crowd (including, but not limited to: line drawing to represent the location of a pitch, kicking dirt, throwing hats, excessive arm flailing - usually accompanied by 'he was safe by THIS much!!' -, bringing a rule book onto the field, bringing glasses (or a white cane apparently, Kyle, lol again) onto the field, clearly pointing out markings in the dirt while arguing, removing bases, covering home plate with dirt, re-enacting a play)
- fighting
- field personnel engaging in non-routine behaviour (like a third base coach running down the line or yelling "time") in order to cause the pitcher to balk. Obviously, should the pitcher balk, wave it off before pulling the trigger
- spitting at / on opposition personnel or umpires. Includes saliva, tobacco, sunflower seeds, water, sports drink, etc.
- arguing with an umpire's decision after a crew consultation - managers are entitled to an explanation only

Warnings
- players or coaches who are not the manager or manager designate attempting to argue with the umpire after a ruling.
- excessive throwing of equipment on the field not directed at the umpires (IE a batter strikes out swinging after whiffing on all three pitches and rifles his bat from the plate to the bench)
- minor pushing and shoving that does not escalate occurring after a clean baseball play (IE incidental contact between runner and fielder around a base, one takes offense and gives the other a light push, the other returns this favour before being separated)
- attempts to incite an opponent

Ignore
- profanity not directed at an opponent or the umpires

Throwing-At Situations
Automatics
- a pitcher deemed to have intentionally thrown at a batter.
- following bench warnings, the manager or acting manager of the team whose pitcher has intentionally thrown at the pitcher
- a manager, acting manager, or coach who has been / may be perceived to have instructed their pitcher to intentionally throw at a batter (note to the board - you see this normally in two situations 1) member of the offense violates "baseball protocol". A mound visit is then made, and the first pitch once play resumes is thrown at the batter and 2) the other team violates "baseball protocol" met by some jerk-off from the bench yelling something like "if that happens again, someone's going down." It happens again and "someone goes down". In these cases, even though you most likely have not warned the benches, you are dumping the pitcher and the manager
- a pitcher and catcher conspire and proceed to throw at an umpire. Ejection of the manager or acting manager may also occur.

Bench Clearing / Fighting Situations
Automatics
- a batter who approaches the mound after an errant pitch and progresses a reasonable distance towards the mound. (note to board - again, this is men's baseball. If an individual takes two or three steps toward the mound and decides better, there is no need to do anything except escort them to 1B.
- any player who leaves their position or the bench to instigate or acting as an aggressor in an altercation (aggressor defined as throwing punches)
- any coach or manager who does not assist umpires in restoring order to the situation in a timely manner

Ignore
- players leaving the bench or their positions to act as peacemakers, grapple with the opposition (you'll often see players on the edge of the brawl "pair off" and almost playfully wrestle one another to ensure they don't join the fracas, or engage in minor pushing and shoving

This list is not entirely cumulative. It's getting late, I'm tired, and my thought capacity is waning. Feel free to add or disagree, but save disputes for another thread - don't make Fin's life difficult by having to sort through multitudes of posts that won't help his task.

#9 poppyfor3

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 05:51 AM

1. Bringing a seeing eye dog to plate meeting.

2. Mocking opponent's transgender shortstop for wearing high heels.

3. Not knowing the MINIMUM bribe is $500.00.

4. Carrying anything larger than a.22 in his shoulder harness.

5. Peeing on home plate.

#10 johnnyg08

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:01 AM


*taking hat off, and does not put it back on head after warning



I gotta tell ya, that's a new one.

"Listen, Skip, you better put your lid back on. This is your warning"

I can't imagine ever saying that to a grown man.

And I always thought removing ones chapeau was sign of respect, I mean, we all do it after the final putt on the 18th, before shaking hands, right?


I think it would be similar to throwing equipment in protest of a call. You have to visualize the situation. That act can incite a crowd.
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#11 johnnyg08

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:12 AM

1. Bringing a seeing eye dog to plate meeting.

2. Mocking opponent's transgender shortstop for wearing high heels.

3. Not knowing the MINIMUM bribe is $500.00.

4. Carrying anything larger than a.22 in his shoulder harness.

5. Peeing on home plate.


Good thread for a troll
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#12 kylejt

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

Kev's just compiling a list of do's and don'ts, and trying to get a list of things for mangers to think about. Our 'line in the sand", if you will.

I've found that humor is a great vehicle for teaching, and use it often in a classroom setting, and on the field. But, if you had your funnybone removed at a young age, or weren't born with good timing (timing is everything in comedy), don't try this at home. It's not for everyone.

The trouble with black and white deliniation is that the other manager will expect an ejection if the line is thought to be crossed. Let's take hat removal. If a manager walks out of the dugout, lifts his hat to scratch his scalp, the opposing manager may want his removal. Now, if that manager flings his hat (I've done that), then it's a bit different, but not, IMO, an auto-EJ (I threw mine at the dugout, from the third base coaches box). My point is, there's a lot of "it depends" in a lot of these situations.

Tone, volume and history of remarks are also key, and very subjective. That's why I'm not a big fan of zero tolerance. What may pass as funny in one instance, may be vile and insulting the next inning. I may know the umpire at the plate, and say something to crack him up, but if it came from the other dugout, that guy is getting run straight away. Again, "it depends".

#13 UmpTTS43

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:20 PM


*taking hat off, and does not put it back on head after warning



I gotta tell ya, that's a new one.

"Listen, Skip, you better put your lid back on. This is your warning"

I can't imagine ever saying that to a grown man.

And I always thought removing ones chapeau was sign of respect, I mean, we all do it after the final putt on the 18th, before shaking hands, right?


In higher levels of baseball it's a sign of disrespect. I will not have a discussion with Skip if he has his cap in his hand. I will ask him to put it on or the discussion is over. I will not eject for him simply holding it but there will be no discussion. If he follows me with cap in hand I will warn. If he follows me again with cap in hand I will eject. If he follows me after putting his cap on, we will have a discussion. Managers and high level college coaches know this. Anything below that, coaches may have to be educated.

#14 UmpTTS43

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:25 PM

Now, if that manager flings his hat (I've done that), then it's a bit different, but not, IMO, an auto-EJ (I threw mine at the dugout, from the third base coaches box). My point is, there's a lot of "it depends" in a lot of these situations.


If it is perceived to be in response to a call made on the field, it's an automatic. If it is perceived to be in response to his players' performance, it is overlooked. If there is any question, he's done.

#15 Kevin Finnerty

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:50 PM

This is going great! I had drawn a short list and this is making it a rather uniform process. I love it.

Thank you!

P.S. This is funny. The UIC that proposed it and two main colleagues that are participating used drawing a line with the bat as No. 1, just as I did. So I start this topic to gather your input, and Michael you responded first, with your No. 1 listed offense being drawing a line. :D ... I love it.

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̶ Bob Uecker


#16 johnnyg08

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

Kev's just compiling a list of do's and don'ts, and trying to get a list of things for mangers to think about. Our 'line in the sand", if you will.

I've found that humor is a great vehicle for teaching, and use it often in a classroom setting, and on the field. But, if you had your funnybone removed at a young age, or weren't born with good timing (timing is everything in comedy), don't try this at home. It's not for everyone.

The trouble with black and white deliniation is that the other manager will expect an ejection if the line is thought to be crossed. Let's take hat removal. If a manager walks out of the dugout, lifts his hat to scratch his scalp, the opposing manager may want his removal. Now, if that manager flings his hat (I've done that), then it's a bit different, but not, IMO, an auto-EJ (I threw mine at the dugout, from the third base coaches box). My point is, there's a lot of "it depends" in a lot of these situations.

Tone, volume and history of remarks are also key, and very subjective. That's why I'm not a big fan of zero tolerance. What may pass as funny in one instance, may be vile and insulting the next inning. I may know the umpire at the plate, and say something to crack him up, but if it came from the other dugout, that guy is getting run straight away. Again, "it depends".


That's where you get paid to umpire and use judgment.
I'm not where I need to be, but not where I used to be.

#17 Kevin Finnerty

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 08:46 PM

A year ago, I was accused of having a quick ejection, when I ejected a batter for standing in the batter's box after being called out on strikes, and while leaning on his bat as though it was a cane, looking at me and screaming, "You are fu - - - - - kidding me!" And he highlighted the F-bomb.

I think it was automatic in several different ways: He disputed balls and strikes; he did it in unsportsmanlike fashion; he stood there and showed me up; and he blasted an F-bomb at full volume. It was as automatic as any ejection I ever had. To date, I have asked 43 umpires and several distinguished head coaches if it was automatic. The umpires are from my level or above, including two current and two former MLB umpires, and so far the tally is unanimous.

The guy who called it quick was the owner of the league, who was also the player's manager. He got the other managers to vote to overturn it, so his suspended CF could play in a playoff game. The assignor did nothing but laugh it off. So I did the right thing: I quit his league, telling the owner that I wasn't the kind of umpire his league required. I also told him that he'll be getting the umpiring he deserves.

“Let’s face it: Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can’t resist.”

̶ Bob Uecker


#18 kylejt

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:52 PM

Make it an even 44.

#19 Kevin Finnerty

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:40 PM

Thank you, brother.

“Let’s face it: Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can’t resist.”

̶ Bob Uecker


#20 Umpire in Chief

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:35 AM

#1. Any shouting, demonstration, posturing, jestures ... with the intent of showing up an umpire.
#2. Any "magic words" disrespectfully directed at an umpire ( I don't care if they curse, just don't direct it at me)
#3. Any "you" statement that doesn't end with; are the greatest ever, have a wonderful day, made an excllent call, are a god-like being...
#4. Anything that the person has been previously warned about.
#5. Physical contact including spittle

Warren





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