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Fed Point of Emphasis: Gorilla Stance


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#1 NevadaBlue

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:20 AM

Swinging arm must stop swinging before coming up to set or its a balk.

Really?

What real advantage does a pitcher have swinging the arm in a gorilla stance?

Who else thinks this is a bunch of hooey?


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#2 Umpire in Chief

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:29 AM

I think it is a bit crazy. I try to get to the reason behind the rules so I know how to judge and interpret the violation. At the state meeting I was told the reason was that the swing, begins the pitchers motion.

WTF. He hasn't even come set, so he cannot begin his motion so a delivery to the plate would be a balk, but a pick off attempt would not -- by logic and existing rule that is.

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#3 DirtyDawg

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:59 AM

When they told it to us they were referring more to the stretch, being that the player cannot swing his arm as soon as he steps on the rubber. I can see this if the pitcher has the ball in his hands, because he could then be swinging his arm, step off, and throw pretty much all at the same time, and the runner would be none the wiser.
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#4 mstaylor

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:40 AM

I have a different take on it. I think the whole stance is illegal and stupid at best. I have no problem enforcing this because it does look like he is stating his stretch and puts the runner at a disadvantage.
My question has always been why do it to start with besides it looks cool like the guys on TV? If there is no advantage either way, why do something that technically is illegal to begin with?
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#5 BrianC14

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:11 AM

Swinging arm must stop swinging before coming up to set or its a balk.

Really?

What real advantage does a pitcher have swinging the arm in a gorilla stance?

Who else thinks this is a bunch of hooey?


Actually, swinging the arm at all (not just before coming set) is classified as a balk in FED. Dumb rule, IMO.
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#6 HokieUmp

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:27 AM

Actually, swinging the arm at all (not just before coming set) is classified as a balk in FED. Dumb rule, IMO.


I have a question, then. Last week, I had a game where F1 would lean forward, and his pitching arm would swing - not violently, but swinging nonetheless. But he clearly had the ball in his glove. So, as far as I was concerned, there was no "starting his motion" argument to be made. (FWIW, the other team didn't have a problem with it.)

I had nothing, and didn't say a thing to him on it. Given what Brian just wrote above - was I wrong? I thought the dangly-arm change, even with the PoE, was for an F1 that had the ball in the pitching hand. Did I just <bleep> that up?

#7 LMSANS

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:50 AM

I have a question, then. Last week, I had a game where F1 would lean forward, and his pitching arm would swing - not violently, but swinging nonetheless. But he clearly had the ball in his glove. So, as far as I was concerned, there was no "starting his motion" argument to be made. (FWIW, the other team didn't have a problem with it.)

I had nothing, and didn't say a thing to him on it. Given what Brian just wrote above - was I wrong? I thought the dangly-arm change, even with the PoE, was for an F1 that had the ball in the pitching hand. Did I just <bleep> that up?


Yeah I think you bleeped. The interpretation we were given was very clear that the swinging arm is with or without the ball.

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#8 yawetag

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 01:35 PM

I can see this if the pitcher has the ball in his hands, because he could then be swinging his arm, step off, and throw pretty much all at the same time, and the runner would be none the wiser.


Fed should change their stance to this. Saying it's the start of the pitch is, as others have mentioned, incorrect. If the pitcher started their pitch from the stretch, I'd have a balk anyway.

I don't see them adding a "Only call if the ball is in the hand" rule -- there are no other balks that require the ball to be in the throwing hand.

#9 mstaylor

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 04:39 PM

I don't think Fed actually said it was the start of the pitch, I think they said it simulated the start of the stretch. I think a state interpreter either misspoke or he was misunderstood on the simulates the start of the pitch.
Anybody have anything on why a pitcher wants to use a gorilla stance? I see no good reason so I am looking for information.
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#10 JaxRolo

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 04:51 PM

OK Pardon my ignorance but what is a Swinging Arm? :shakehead:

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#11 BrianC14

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 06:10 PM

OK Pardon my ignorance but what is a Swinging Arm? :wave:


It's an arm.... that is swinging. :spit:

Some pitchers, when they're in the stretch, like to bend over at the waist, and look in for the signs. Rather than putting their arm against their side or behind them, they let their pitching arm hang down - thus, the 'gorilla arm'.

Sometimes they'll swing that arm.

FED has declared this arm motion to be a balk. :shakehead:
Other rule sets leave it be.
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#12 Umpire in Chief

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:23 PM

OK Pardon my ignorance but what is a Swinging Arm? :shakehead:


Here you go.


Warren


#13 Pops

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:40 PM

This is a nice video of the many different starting points before going into the set position. The one that was most interesting is the "sneaking into the set" move. If the runner can not see the glove hand because it is near the front of the waist, and if the lower part of the pitching arm is also obscured from view by the leg, it is impossible for the runner to see the pitcher go into the set position. Is this illegal in Fed and OBR based on the language of the balk rules (i.e. deception)?

#14 yawetag

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 04:03 AM

Is this illegal in Fed and OBR based on the language of the balk rules (i.e. deception)?


Yes.

Fed: 6-1-3: His pitching hand shall be down at his side or behind his back.

OBR: 8.01(:(: Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;




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